Official Dids Gym Thread

[Dids]

A few guestions I have that haven't been answered:

2- I've been told by a few people that I should be doing the lifting first before cardio. My reasoning for not doing this in the past has been that it’s the lifting I really enjoy, so by forcing myself through the cardio, the lifting is a reward. How much of an impact is this, and is it mos def something I should change? Should I still have like a 10 minute warm-up if I do that?

5- Is the shake (after dinner, usually around 8:30-9:00 PM) a good/bad idea ?

[nutsflopper]

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A few guestions I have that haven't been answered:

2- I've been told by a few people that I should be doing the lifting first before cardio. My reasoning for not doing this in the past has been that it’s the lifting I really enjoy, so by forcing myself through the cardio, the lifting is a reward. How much of an impact is this, and is it mos def something I should change? Should I still have like a 10 minute warm-up if I do that?

5- Is the shake (after dinner, usually around 8:30-9:00 PM) a good/bad idea ?

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Hey dids, I gave some advice in your other thread, sorry if I sounded like an ass. The reason you should lift before cardio is so you don't exhaust yourself before you lift heavy. Since you're a beginner, it's not a big deal though because you're not lifting very heavy, plus you're using machines which are a lot easier. You should always warm up before any exercise. I'd recommend cottage cheese just before bed instead of the shake, as it digests slow, providing a steady stream of protein while you sleep. Also, you have free reign to satisfy your sweet tooth post-workout (and is beneficial), because you're most insulin sensitive then (insulin spike isn't going to store fat, but ship nutrients to muscles).

[DarkForceRising]

Dids,

Way to kick ass on your diet. One possible solution for your distaste for free weights/squats and deadlifts could be dumbell lunges. Sometimes I will walk up and down the stairs at my gym while holding the dumbells. It is great for the forearms and grip as well as the legs and lungs. Plus your not messing with anything too heavy involving barbells.

Charles Poloquin (highly sought after NHL trainer) has a book called "Manly Weight Loss". I've never actually read it but I was at one time somewhat familiar with his German Body Comp program. Basically, he advocates weight training as opposed to cardio to burn fat.

You should look into more movements/routines with weights that can create a calorie burning environment. The right program will offer you faster progress and eliminate the muscle-wasting indignity of the traditional mind-numbingly dull cardio.

Save your energy for the iron and I think you will like the results. If you feel the need to do some type of strictly aerobic activity try and incorporate it with something fun like roller-blading.

[DarkForceRising]

A few more thoughts after more carefully reading the thread...



You should definitely be doing this movement. Using a shorter bar (maybe your gym has the type with the weights permanently attatched) will eliminate the awkward nature of the a traditional barbell. Also, if your gym has a trapezius machine that goes to the floor, you should be able to perform deadlifts without going through the hassle of the usual method.

As one who has always 'dieted on the run', I found an empty water jug to be a clutch tool. Either in the morning or the night before I would blend up a mix of protein powder, water and oatmeal with the amount of protein being in line with the goal of 1 gram per pound of body-weight. Chocolate doesn't need any help but vanilla benefits nicely from bananas and strawberries. You can sip on this throughout the day, keeping your appetite and positive-nitrogen balance in check.

Most protein preparations mix well with water these days and by not using milk it can get warm without getting gross. Throwing some ice cubes into the blender will keep it even colder, obv.

The shake before bedtime is a good idea as you want protein to be active in your system while sleeping. You should keep the carbs low before retiring. In fact, a small steak or chicken breast (or cottage chese as nutsflopper suggested)may be a better choice as these won't make you want to piss in the middle of the night.

Again, congrats and good luck. I hope you understand any guff I have given you in the past was never meant to be anything more than good-natured internet ribbing. Your progress is awesome and I am rooting for you to really take this thing into the end zone.

[PITTM]

[ QUOTE ]
A few guestions I have that haven't been answered:

2- I've been told by a few people that I should be doing the lifting first before cardio. My reasoning for not doing this in the past has been that it’s the lifting I really enjoy, so by forcing myself through the cardio, the lifting is a reward. How much of an impact is this, and is it mos def something I should change? Should I still have like a 10 minute warm-up if I do that?


Disagree. I have always done cardio before lifting and almost everyone I know who is serious about working out does the same. the cardio makes the blood flow through your muscles a bit more and this helps recovery when lifting as well as just kinda warms you up. my routine has always been ~30 minutes of cardio, ~15 minutes of stretching/pushups/situps/leglifts, ~30 minutes of lifting. If i go into the gym cold I can lift less and recover worse than if ive done cardio and am warm.



5- Is the shake (after dinner, usually around 8:30-9:00 PM) a good/bad idea ?


I think its a poor idea, i would do it right between leaving work and going to the gym since it will again help with recovery and will give a slight bit of energy. I usually eat a clif/tigers milk bar or something along those lines right before the gym after I've been at work all day.




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[tdarko]

PITTM,

Cardio before your workout is fine but I don't think you really understand what is going on or needed to get the blood going through the muscles. Depending on the person it only takes a few minutes to actually get the heart rate up and to sustain it. And for someone overweight that time is reduced. You don't need 30 minutes of cardio to get the blood flow through your muscles and help aiding in recovery as well as warm up. All you need is 5 minutes or so to get the heart rate up or however long it takes for that person, stretch a little bit which will let the heart rate come down some and then lift which will bring it back up. Your blood flow will not be any different.

Now I will say it also depends on what you are trying to do, when I work out I am not trying to just emaciate when I am in the gym. The gym is a time to not necessarily get bigger but to build lean muscle mass. The kitchen is where I keep the pounds off. If you lift weights after 30+ minutes of cardio your body will now not be able to build or even maintain its lean muscle tissue. It doesn't have the strength to build muscle basically. But on the other hand all of this cardio before weights means that you burn more calories after your workout. Its called Excess Postexercise Oxygen Consumption. I

So it isn't "horrible" that Dids is doing it first but not ideal b/c while he is dropping weight in the kitchen he should be replacing it with lean muscle mass in the gym which he isn't doing at the rate he is going.

[thirddan]

congrats dids...much improved since ive seen you...next time we meet beer...err...protein drinks on me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[TimM]

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As you may know, last March I was at 331 lbs. That's likely down from more like 345 (I had moved in Feb and was walking about 3 mile or so a day for the past 3 months).

Since then I've dropped about 70 lbs to my current total of 260.

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Very nice, it feels good doesn't it?

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What jumps off the page at me is that my upper body is horrible, especially chest press, but my lower body is almost maxing out some of the machines.

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I am similar, shoulder press is also my worst.

[Sofisdad]

Dids,

I think the big reason you might want to try lifting before cardio is due to losing weight more efficiently given your expected amount of time in the gym each session. It takes approximately 20 minutes of medium intensity cardio to burn the sugar in your bloodstream that your body is going to be using for energy during your workout. After you get rid of the sugar then your body begins to rely on fat stores for additional energy to carry you through whatever activity you are taking part in. Lifting will not burn the amount of calories that intense cardio does but it will serve the purpose of getting rid of the body's primary energy source for short durations of activity, i.e., blood sugar, and then allow you to start burning off some of the fat stores that have been collecting it for later use. Ideally, you will have no more blood sugar left when you start cardio after lifting and all the calories you burn will be taken from stored fat.

This is another reason some people will recommend doing cardio or working out in the morning first thing on an empty stomach, your body has used its available sugar sources to maintain all of your bodily functions while you are asleep. This will lead to all calories burnt coming from your fat stores, before you put food into your body in the morning. Bodybuilders will do this when getting ready for a competition to lower their body fat at a quicker pace.

Its also important to remember that all calories going into your body, whether they be fat, protein, or carbs, will be turned into sugar molecules eventually and then put into your bloodstream. It just takes more work for your body to turn the protein molecules into the sugar and the body burns more calories converting protein into available energy. Fat is 9 calories a gram, protein and carbs are 4 calories per gram. Thats why 1 fat gram is 'worse' than a gram of protein or carbohydrate. Carbs are in various forms but simple carbs like white bread, white rice, or just plain sugar hits your bloodstream much quicker after eating them and if they aren't used immediately by your body then they turn to fat fairly quickly. Not trying to make this Nutrition 101 or anything but understanding what happens to the different types of foods that go into your body sometimes makes it easier to know what to stay away from over time.

Congratulations on your weight loss so far Dids!!!!

[Thremp]

Dids,

After reading the responses and doing some mild thinking (in lieu of studying). I think you are still too fat to do a "workout". There are a hundred avenues you can go, but instead of doing "cardio and a workout". You are best suited by a GPP type workout. Your diet needs improvement, but at this point... Its kinda moot. As progress slows you can tighten up.

GPP would be like carrying heavy things around. Lifting heavy things up and putting them on the ground. Doing complex movements with only your bodyweight.

Like right now. You could do bodyweight box squats to failure for a morning workout in sets of 10 or whatever. And then possibly work on your snatch form in the evening. However, you mentioned that you "enjoy" going to the gym. So while it may not be the optimal thing for you to go and grind out machine bicep curls. Motivation is probably the biggest thing at this point. So just stick with what your doing. (Learning O-lifts with a broomstick in lieu of cardio some days might be a good sub.)