Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > Other Poker > Heads Up Poker

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-07-2007, 01:17 AM
NSM NSM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 58
Default Getting to the 220\'s NLTRN

Man, it took me WAY too long to find this forum.

Lots of great stuff in here, TNixon's post related to HUSNG variance and bankroll really got my attention. Even though I agree with almost all of Cwar's points about risk of ruin that's not really a concern of mine. I made an initial $200 deposit on FTP several months ago with the goal of improving my game, and steadily moving up in buy-ins. I've exceeded my expectations as my bankroll is now at nearly $4K. I've had 2 particularly nasty downswings you can see on my sharkscope graph (I am FTP player "hadtogetiton"). Besides tilty play and some ugly doomswitching during these streaks, one aspect of my play during these periods was my relative indifference to the stakes I was playing. In each spot, I'd been cruising pretty well, had plenty of bankroll cushion and I don't think I approached each match with my A game. I also think I played too many matches w/ TNixon (: I felt like I was on some sort of +EV cruise control and could just let the money roll in. I think I actually had /too many/ buyins in my bankroll. After each stretch I really made an effort to plug leaks in my game, game select better, and stick to 1 match at a time. This had extremely positive results as each of my more or less vertical downswings were replaced with more or less vertical lines back up on my graph. But after reading TNixon's post I realize I probably cost myself quite a bit of value in my latest upswing. I was so rattled by watching my bankroll shrink from $4100 to $2900 the last downswing that I more or less made myself stay at the $50 matches until I recouped my "losses". I was running/playing/game selecting really well and this limiting mindset doesn't really make sense since I wasn't at risk of ruin, and I hadnít ďlostĒ anything.

SO, I think it makes sense to paint myself into a bit of a bankroll corner, and in doing so reach a little higher. I have some November goals I need to complete, but assuming I reach those I think I will make a rather large withdrawal, leaving myself with maybe something like 15 buyins at the $100 level. I don't think my game is ready for shots at the $200-220s but if I can show a positive winrate at exclusively 100 over a couple hundred games I want to get it on.

Iíd also like to see a thread started (if it doesnít really exist) on the keys to moving up the levels in HUSNGís from those who have been successful in doing so. Some really generic tips I would have for guys trying to beat the $50 and $100 matches that have worked for me are as follows:

1) GAME SELECT w/ sharkscope. I think this is by far the most important ďskill.Ē When you get in a room w/ a -20-30% ROI Fish that should more or less be free money (your win rate should really be around 80% against these guys, variance or not).

2) Overplay huge hands in position if someone value bets into you, /especially/ on boards w/ an Ace on it or if you have the second nuts on a paired board. IE, if Iím the button and I have the nut straight and my opponent pot bets or more on the river into me, I donít care what the stack sizes are I am overbetting all in. I canít tell you how many times heís had Aces up (and just as often a ďbigĒ Ace that he canít fold). He is not getting away from it, good player or not. Just as often, on a paired board if I have high flush or a nut straight and my opponent pot bets the river going all in is the right play and itís very rarely a full house youíre up against. Ending these matches in spots like this is huge, especially if you had relatively even stacks to start the hand.

3) Reraise extremely light when you get raised pot preflop if his raises are consistent and predictable, then donk pot any flop that doesnít have an A, K, J, or T on it. Predictable opponents button raise is often A anything, K anything, JT, etc. Reraise pre, then donk potting a Q, 7, 4 leads to juicy pots and usually gets hands like 66, AJ, etc to go away.

4) If your opponent is limping a lot from the button, pick an early spot to reraise OOP preflop w/ a trash hand like 92 or T3, then show the bluff if he folds pre or to your CB. Youíre due to pick up a hand like high pair or AK later in the match, a fish will have NO respect for your preflop raise and CB if you crush the flop. You are almost always getting raised, and usually itís him being cute or stationing any piece of the flop (this is preferable as heíll play for stacks).

5) Bet 150% of the pot in position on the flop to a check early in a match. This has been the quickest way for me to learn about an unknown opponents style. If he calls (happens more often then reraises) it tells me a lot about what he checks on the flop, and how tricky/trappy he is. Heís obviously getting the worst of it as youíll actually have a hand every once in awhile and heís spewed too much or if he checks again you can 150% pot double barrel and get some really good value.

6) Use donk tactics. Donk tactics drive you crazy, and you should drive your opponents crazy too. Min raise every once in awhile, donk bet in stupid spots, bet 20 into a 450 chip pot on the river, this stuff is infuriating, especially when you win at showdown. Itís much easier to valuebet and overbet with your big hands when youíve been making retarded bets and have no respect early in the match. Just donít use donk tactics in big pots (:

7) Donít call shoves too light just b/c you think youíve got your opponent on the ropes. If blinds are 15/30 and he shoves 405 and youíve got A6 or 33 I donít think thatís a good call. Him getting 800+ in chips makes him very much alive. Heís going to keep shoving in these spots, youíd much rather call w/ AK or 88 and those will come.

8) Donít chat, except to compliment your opponent or be oblivious to his insults. I like to say ďthanks!Ē anytime someone tells me how horrible I am. I donít know why, but this is +EV.

9) See whoís multitabling and kill them when they are. Open up their other match(s), see when theyíre in tricky pots, trailing their opponents, trash talking, etc. Take advantage of these times to steal chips and CB.

10) If good players sign up for matches w/ you, ask them why they did, and why they arenít game selecting better. I learned this from TNixon. Itís ĖEV for us to play each other, most guys will stop playing w/ you if you ask nicely.

Again, this is just stuff that worked for me. My game needs a lot of work but I think Iíve been making steady improvement. Iím really glad I found this forum and am looking forward to feedback.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-07-2007, 03:02 AM
ukdentisto32 ukdentisto32 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 177
Default Re: Getting to the 220\'s

[ QUOTE ]

5) Bet 150% of the pot in position on the flop to a check early in a match. This has been the quickest way for me to learn about an unknown opponents style. If he calls (happens more often then reraises) it tells me a lot about what he checks on the flop, and how tricky/trappy he is. Heís obviously getting the worst of it as youíll actually have a hand every once in awhile and heís spewed too much or if he checks again you can 150% pot double barrel and get some really good value.


[/ QUOTE ]

lol
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-07-2007, 03:04 AM
ChicagoRy ChicagoRy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: husng training site
Posts: 2,083
Default Re: Getting to the 220\'s

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

5) Bet 150% of the pot in position on the flop to a check early in a match. This has been the quickest way for me to learn about an unknown opponents style. If he calls (happens more often then reraises) it tells me a lot about what he checks on the flop, and how tricky/trappy he is. Heís obviously getting the worst of it as youíll actually have a hand every once in awhile and heís spewed too much or if he checks again you can 150% pot double barrel and get some really good value.


[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[/ QUOTE ]

So that's what they're [censored] thinking.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-07-2007, 04:57 AM
HokieGreg HokieGreg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: zomg i got my taco
Posts: 811
Default Re: Getting to the 220\'s

this explains so much
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-07-2007, 05:02 AM
HokieGreg HokieGreg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: zomg i got my taco
Posts: 811
Default Re: Getting to the 220\'s

NSM,

On a more serious note, I find it interesting that in all of your methods to beating the 50 and 100 games you don't list the most important option of "playing solid poker."

-Hokie
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:28 PM
NSM NSM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 58
Default Re: Getting to the 220\'s

Hokie, I'm not sure what you mean? I would assume that as a baseline. I've read your blog, but I haven't read your book - does it begin and end with "play solid poker?"

I'm not a fulltime player or regular poster (obv), my post was meant to get feedback from those who've had success moving up as well as outline some tactics that were useful for /me/. If what I suggested seems unorthodox or -EV (maybe I've just been a luckbox), I'd be really interested in specifics as to why.

BTW, has anyone ever been able to calculate how much money "LOL" posts have made 2+2ers?

Sheesh
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:31 PM
HokieGreg HokieGreg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: zomg i got my taco
Posts: 811
Default Re: Getting to the 220\'s

sorry i thought i was getting leveled
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-07-2007, 02:31 PM
TNixon TNixon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 616
Default Re: Getting to the 220\'s

[ QUOTE ]
10) If good players sign up for matches w/ you, ask them why they did, and why they arenít game selecting better. I learned this from TNixon. Itís ĖEV for us to play each other, most guys will stop playing w/ you if you ask nicely.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. I don't actually do this with many people, but when somebody is stalking me across multiple levels to the tune of 18 games in a fairly short period of time, curiousity gets the best of me.

According to sharkscope heads-to-head stats, we ended up splitting the games right down the middle. -5% ROI each.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Also, was it you that tried to "help" me out by giving away a tell you thought you had on me about raise timing?

Sorry, but it still makes me chuckle a little when somebody thinks they have a timing tell on an opponent who's playing 2-3 tables *and* who likes to chat while multitabling.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, good luck moving to higher levels. If recent experience at the $100 is anything to go by (I've won like 4 out of the last 20 or something disgusting like that, getting clobbered hardcore every time I try to move up), I'll be stuck in the $50s again for a while.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-07-2007, 02:39 PM
HokieGreg HokieGreg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: zomg i got my taco
Posts: 811
Default Re: Getting to the 220\'s

timing tells are so overrated lol

i'm usually just scratching my nuts
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-07-2007, 02:43 PM
NSM NSM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 58
Default Re: Getting to the 220\'s


[ QUOTE ]
lol. I don't actually do this with many people, but when somebody is stalking me across multiple levels to the tune of 18 games in a fairly short period of time, curiousity gets the best of me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I wouldn't call it stalking. I sometimes custom edit my HU Table options to only show the $50 and $100's. And you play a ton of those and were the first available quite often. At least I accepted it wasn't +EV [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, was it you that tried to "help" me out by giving away a tell you thought you had on me about raise timing?

Sorry, but it still makes me chuckle a little when somebody thinks they have a timing tell on an opponent who's playing 2-3 tables *and* who likes to chat while multitabling.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, that was me (:

I think you're that your delayed raises maybe weren't as strong as they might have seemed due to multitabling, but I think there is merit in my suggestion that your insta-raises from position were usually hands that wouldn't withstand a re-raise. That was more or less what I was pointing out, that you might get re-raised quite a bit preflop from observant opponents.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.