learning

slicer65 · #1 09-22-2006, 07:28 AM

I tried to play situations in stead of just the cards. I have a couple of examples of my play. Please let me know if I was to agressive or if this was correct.

Guy in position was agressive. But if figured he either missed the flop completely and would fold. If he called he most likely made a hand. I reraised because in hopes that he would fold and then it was a good value bet to catch an over card on the turn or the flop.

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: calikid96 is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
calikid96 raises, 6 folds, Button calls, SB calls, 1 folds.

Flop: (7.00 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, calikid96 raises, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, calikid96 bets, SB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, calikid96 bets, SB calls.

slicer65 · #2 09-22-2006, 07:38 AM

Obviously I meant I would hit a card on the turn or the river. Sorry.

Groendal · #3 09-22-2006, 08:12 AM

I do this on flop every time. The turn was just a bonus to you.

Ampelmann · #4 09-22-2006, 08:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I do this on flop every time. The turn was just a bonus to you.

[/ QUOTE ]
You raise this flop every time? Then you're definitely spewing money.

DrModern · #5 09-22-2006, 09:14 AM

Do you have any reads?

I'll assume the SB's donk usually means a J or 9 and that you are behind on this flop. The only reason to raise, then, is for protection--i.e. you want to fold the button and possibly clean up some outs. What hands would he call with if you just call that he will fold to a raise?

With an unknown villain I'd say this range is pretty small, and most of them probably contain a 9, or give him a weak draw, like a gutshot (e.g. KQ). For the most part, I think you needn't be afraid of him overcalling, as most of your outs are still clean against his likely cold-calling range.

As such, I don't love raising here, and would probably have just called on the flop.

You say in your OP that you thought your raise was a "good value bet to catch an overcard." Given the board and action, this is ridiculous.

slicer65 · #6 09-22-2006, 09:32 AM

SB is a donk. But Im a bit confused. With 8 small bets and me raising with most likely position, Im getting 4:1 on my bet. The odds of hitting my overcards on the turn or the river is 3.5:1. So it was a good value bet. If not please tell me where my logic is incorrect.

OziBattler · #7 09-22-2006, 09:38 AM

Groendal, you cant raise this flop every time but you can do it. Reads definitely help as does the flop texture...its just that autoraising regardless (of the 2 things I mention) is spew.

[ QUOTE ]
I'll assume the SB's donk usually means a J or 9 and that you are behind on this flop. The only reason to raise, then, is for protection

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that people love to donk into a PFRer with something like a J or 9 here.

Raising also often results in the SB checking the turn allowing you to see the see the river for free.....if they have the J or 9 then will inevitably donk the river once you check the turn.

Smoke em' · #8 09-22-2006, 09:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
SB is a donk. But Im a bit confused. With 8 small bets and me raising with most likely position, Im getting 4:1 on my bet. The odds of hitting my overcards on the turn or the river is 3.5:1. So it was a good value bet. If not please tell me where my logic is incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds like you're raising in the hopes of folding SB and taking a free card on the turn if you miss, that's a lot different from a value bet. You make a value bet when you have a pot equity edge, in this case you're not going to win more than 33% of the time so you don't have an edge.

OziBattler · #9 09-22-2006, 09:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
SB is a donk. But Im a bit confused. With 8 small bets and me raising with most likely position, Im getting 4:1 on my bet. The odds of hitting my overcards on the turn or the river is 3.5:1. So it was a good value bet. If not please tell me where my logic is incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

slicer, tell us what your plan was on the turn and then the river if you dont improve when
a) SB checks the turn
b) SB donks the turn

edit: dont forget to say WHY, including reads beyond "he is a donk". mkay.

slicer65 · #10 09-22-2006, 09:45 AM

a) if he checks i would check behind him for a free card on the river. I made the bet to get two free cards.
b) the guy was a clling station. so if he bet the turn i would have probably folded.