Ratholing and Short Stacking in NL Poker

[TimM]

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then you can always take your business elsewhere.

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This sort of argument is preposterous. No you can't, there aren't that many sites with good games and so far as I know they all have this flaw.

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The sites do not exist to cater to the needs of winning players.

It's unfortunate but all you can do is accept the system or try to change it.

[WhoIam]

My opinion is that shortstacking exploits an inherent flaw in the rules of the game. I remember in the early days of online first-person shooters, people could find spots to "camp" where they could pick off other players while facing almost no danger themselves. Their moronically simple but effective strategy was technically legal but ruined the fun and advanced tactics of other players. Like shortstackers, they were universally despised. Today maps are purposely designed so that these camping spots do not exist.

In the 70s many NFL teams prided themselves on "shut-down" defenses where many opposing teams often failed to score even a single field goal. The NFL wisely realized that this was bad for the game and changed the rules to put more restrictions on defenders. Poker sites need to change the rules or buyin requirements to close this legal but unfair flaw in the rules. Shortstackers are essentially forcing people to play tic-tac-toe when everyone else wants to play chess. You say that no one is forcing us to play and that there are other options, but no major site has taken steps to combat this, with the possible exception of FTP's unpopular deep-stack tables.

[BigPoppa]

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Even if you wanted to just sit out any time a short stacker showed up, that would be a huge loss of profitable play because you'd have to be moving tables a lot and you'd be posting more blinds than you have to. And of course you usually won't want to sit out because you'll have learned that table and might have targeted a fish. You want to play a style for the deep stacks of most of the players but a shorty sticks himself in and you have to play to him.


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I am under absolutely no obligation to modify my playing style to make your style more optimal. Part of winning poker is forcing your opponent to react to your style rather than to play the way he prefers. Much like a hyper-aggressive player who gets the whole table off-balance, a good short-stacker can use his playing style to get an advantage on his opponents, both the skilled and unskilled.

BTW: There's a huge difference between rat-holing (which is basically exploiting a bug in the software) and short-stacking (which is simply adjusting stack sizes within allowed limits to fit your preferred style). There is nothing inherently less ethical about buying in short than buying in for the max.

[bkholdem]

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BTW: There's a huge difference between rat-holing (which is basically exploiting a bug in the software) and short-stacking (which is simply adjusting stack sizes within allowed limits to fit your preferred style).

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I would like for you to explain this 'bug' in the software to me.

Is there some 'bug' in the software of some site where you can sit out and then when buying back in somehow over ride what the software has established as the amount you can buy back in for by pressing a certain key(s) on your keyboard or something?

Like the site has specifically designed the software to requre one to buy back in for what they left with (or more) at the same table for the first 30minutes after leaving... and there is some 'bug' where you can press Alt, enter on your keyboard to get around the way the software was intentionally designed so you can rebuy in for the minimum right after leaving and get in under the 30 minute time set by the site?

[bkholdem]

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then you can always take your business elsewhere.

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This sort of argument is preposterous. No you can't, there aren't that many sites with good games and so far as I know they all have this flaw.



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What is this 'flaw' that you speak of? A 'flaw' that ALL the sites have? hahahaa

Some hot chicks have a 'flaw' in that I go over and try to bang then and they tell me 'no'. Can you belive that!! Damn flawed biotches!!

[bkholdem]

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My opinion is that shortstacking exploits an inherent flaw in the rules of the game. I remember in the early days of online first-person shooters, people could find spots to "camp" where they could pick off other players while facing almost no danger themselves. Their moronically simple but effective strategy was technically legal but ruined the fun and advanced tactics of other players. Like shortstackers, they were universally despised. Today maps are purposely designed so that these camping spots do not exist.

In the 70s many NFL teams prided themselves on "shut-down" defenses where many opposing teams often failed to score even a single field goal. The NFL wisely realized that this was bad for the game and changed the rules to put more restrictions on defenders. Poker sites need to change the rules or buyin requirements to close this legal but unfair flaw in the rules. Shortstackers are essentially forcing people to play tic-tac-toe when everyone else wants to play chess. You say that no one is forcing us to play and that there are other options, but no major site has taken steps to combat this, with the possible exception of FTP's unpopular deep-stack tables.

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Guess what bucko? Sounds like you have found a way to exploit all these dumb poker sites oversight and are in a great position to take advantage of their lack of business savvy. They are too stupid to realize their mistake so you can go start a site and get all the business. Go get rich running a new poker site 'the right way' before someone else reads your post and steals the idea.

[Rick Nebiolo]

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Is there some 'bug' in the software of some site where you can sit out and then when buying back in somehow over ride what the software has established as the amount you can buy back in for by pressing a certain key(s) on your keyboard or something?

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At least at one point Party Poker allowed a player to leave a NL table and immediately come back in for the minimum buy (even after let's say doubling up). This allowed multi-tabling short stack specialists to nibble at pots without much risk.

Not sure this is "a bug" but a lot of players thought this was hurting the game as discussed in a somewhat long ago thread.

~ Rick

PS For those of you who only play Party online some other sites made you wait a bit (I think thirty minutes) before coming back into the same table with the minimum. In a B&M casino the usual wait is an hour and since you can't multi-table you almost never see it.

[bkholdem]

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If it is a deliberate feature of the software because the site just doesn't care ...

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See, the fact of the matter is that it is a deliberate feature. But what's up with this 'because ths site just doesn't care'? Are they supposted to care about a certain type of player more than other types of players?

Maybe I want a certain site, or certain limits at sites, to 'care' about my needs as a short stack player. Yeah... see the sites should really be fair and charge rake according to % of stack size. Baby stacks pay less, Large stacks pay more. After all the large stacks can win more so it's only fare they pay more! It's time for the sites to stop taking unfair advantage of short stacks.

People in society who earn less pay a lower % in taxes. People with no earnings get free stuff. Since this is the way society works the sites should do what is fair and correct and implement this. Plus loosing players should not have to pay rake, they are getting hozed more than anyone so big stack winning players should foot the bill. I mean come on people we need to stop this unfairness!!!

[bkholdem]

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Is there some 'bug' in the software of some site where you can sit out and then when buying back in somehow over ride what the software has established as the amount you can buy back in for by pressing a certain key(s) on your keyboard or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

At least at one point Party Poker allowed a player to leave a NL table and immediately come back in for the minimum buy (even after let's say doubling up). This allowed multi-tabling short stack specialists to nibble at pots without much risk.

Not sure this is "a bug" but a lot of players thought this was hurting the game as discussed in a somewhat long ago thread.

~ Rick



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I remember a thread in HSNL about a year ago or more where players were biotching about shorties in the highstakes games. I bulb went off, they are complaining they must be getting the worst of it somehow. This was my introduction to shortstacking, I kept playing my regular limits with a full stack but started shortstacking bigger games that I did not have the roll for if playing with a full stack.

LOL at highlimit players having this psychological leak.

[Reef]

"There are unlimited tables and options."

I disagree, especially outside of primetime.

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I'm fine with people buyin in for 20bb, but if/when they double up, immediately leave, and sit back in with 20bb, that's scum and goes against the spirit of the game.

I think the time to be able to rathole on a single table should be 2 hours at the minimum.