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#71
11-25-2007, 08:37 AM
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Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
in vegas the majority of people dont choose which casino to go to coz of its poker room.
you guys r hilarious. look at it this way how many, percentage wise, go to vegas to play poker. and of this small amount how many take entourages....lol. 
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#72
11-25-2007, 04:58 PM
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Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
[ QUOTE ]
in vegas the majority of people dont choose which casino to go to coz of its poker room. you guys r hilarious. look at it this way how many, percentage wise, go to vegas to play poker. and of this small amount how many take entourages....lol. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure what your point is...what has that got to do with the matter under discussion, may I ask? Does anyone think that Mirage poker room ran for ~10 years before Chris Moneymaker arrived on the scene, yet didn't manage to show a profit during all those years? Or that Commerce and Bicycle Club don't make a TON of money off poker? A full (or nearly full) running poker table pulls in over $100 per hour for the house. Do the math and please explain how expenses are greater than that? "Loss leader" is not the right way to look at poker because it is not a loss for the house. At most it is just less profitable than they might otherwise earn if they could more effectively otherwise utilize that available space. For some casinos, poker might not be so great because their space or resources are severely limited, or because they don't get many customers for it. For other casinos, it is just additional profit to add to the take from table games and/or slots. If you own a fine and profitable restaurant, and at the checkout counter where people pay their bill you decide to add a glass case and offer for sale some cartons of fancy chocolates, mints and cigars under glass, that doesn't mean you are losing money on the extra items. Yes, it may take up some extra room and it will delay the checkout hostess a bit, but it is still extra profit: it just probably isn't as profitable as serving a Chateaubriand dinner for four. But unless you are severely limited for space or hired help, you might as well be selling both as long as the market will support it.
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#73
11-25-2007, 05:07 PM
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Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] in vegas the majority of people dont choose which casino to go to coz of its poker room. you guys r hilarious. look at it this way how many, percentage wise, go to vegas to play poker. and of this small amount how many take entourages....lol. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure what your point is...what has that got to do with the matter under discussion, may I ask? Does anyone think that Mirage poker room ran for ~10 years before Chris Moneymaker arrived on the scene, yet didn't manage to show a profit during all those years? Or that Commerce and Bicycle Club don't make a TON of money off poker? A full (or nearly full) running poker table pulls in over $100 per hour for the house. Do the math and please explain how expenses are greater than that? "Loss leader" is not the right way to look at poker because it is not a loss for the house. At most it is just less profitable than they might otherwise earn if they could more effectively otherwise utilize that available space. For some casinos, poker might not be so great because their space or resources are severely limited, or because they don't get many customers for it. For other casinos, it is just additional profit to add to the take from table games and/or slots. If you own a fine and profitable restaurant, and at the checkout counter where people pay their bill you decide to add a glass case and offer for sale some cartons of fancy chocolates, mints and cigars under glass, that doesn't mean you are losing money on the extra items. Yes, it may take up some extra room and it will delay the checkout hostess a bit, but it is still extra profit: it just probably isn't as profitable as serving a Chateaubriand dinner for four. But unless you are severely limited for space or hired help, you might as well be selling both as long as the market will support it. [/ QUOTE ] There were a number of rooms (not the big rooms) that did lose money. Those days are gone for the time being.
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#74
11-25-2007, 06:29 PM
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Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Poker doesn't make money. Fact. [/ QUOTE ] Really? What do you base this fact on? I've seen financial reports that indicate that poker makes a pretty consistent and steady ROI for the casinos, even after overhead and re-appropriation of funds. Again, per sq/ft does it make as much as some other things? No. But is it a draw? Does it bring people to the casino? Does it add to the casino's overall appeal? I just don't get the arguement that poker in casinos is not a good/moneymaking idea. The numbers don't lie, first off. Second off, you can't discount the lure of the game, and what other "bells and whistles" casinos throw at you. It works, right? Trust me when I say this... and this should smack you in the face with common sense... Casinos are not in business because they waste time, money, or space with things that do not make them more profitable. [/ QUOTE ] I think in reality, poker is similar to the casinos pool, tommy bahamas store, health club, and fake diamond store. Are they important to have? Yes they are ammenities which are nice to have at a casino, an added bonus. But in reality, do you think they make up more than 3% of their bottom line? Prob not. Chevron gas stations are prob not making a ton of money off of the $.87 beef jerky and tic tacs sitting the counter, but people enjoy them, so there they sit.
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#75
11-25-2007, 07:00 PM
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Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
[ QUOTE ]
Believe it or not, poker made money for the house back in those "ancient days" before the Chris Moneymaker era, too. [/ QUOTE ] In 2002, how many LV strip casinos had poker rooms? MGM? No. Venetian? No. Caesars? No. Guess why. It's not about making money. It's about making the most money.
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#76
11-25-2007, 07:22 PM
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Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A big part of this is that for whatever reason different departments in casinos do not communicate or cooperate. [/ QUOTE ] This is not just a fact, it's practically standard operating procedure. It's amazing the resistance you'll encounter when you want to get something done that affects more than your specific department. The worst (naturally) is human resources. Their job is to take a simple problem and make it complicated. Al [/ QUOTE ] That's because HR is a disease that should be eliminated.
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#77
11-25-2007, 07:24 PM
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Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Poker doesn't make money. Fact. [/ QUOTE ] Really? What do you base this fact on? I've seen financial reports that indicate that poker makes a pretty consistent and steady ROI for the casinos, even after overhead and re-appropriation of funds. Again, per sq/ft does it make as much as some other things? No. But is it a draw? Does it bring people to the casino? Does it add to the casino's overall appeal? I just don't get the arguement that poker in casinos is not a good/moneymaking idea. The numbers don't lie, first off. Second off, you can't discount the lure of the game, and what other "bells and whistles" casinos throw at you. It works, right? Trust me when I say this... and this should smack you in the face with common sense... Casinos are not in business because they waste time, money, or space with things that do not make them more profitable. [/ QUOTE ] I think in reality, poker is similar to the casinos pool, tommy bahamas store, health club, and fake diamond store. Are they important to have? Yes they are ammenities which are nice to have at a casino, an added bonus. But in reality, do you think they make up more than 3% of their bottom line? Prob not. Chevron gas stations are prob not making a ton of money off of the $.87 beef jerky and tic tacs sitting the counter, but people enjoy them, so there they sit. [/ QUOTE ] Read a few issues of Convenience Store News and you'll discover that's EXACTLY where they make money, not on gas.
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#78
11-25-2007, 07:48 PM
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Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Believe it or not, poker made money for the house back in those "ancient days" before the Chris Moneymaker era, too. [/ QUOTE ] In 2002, how many LV strip casinos had poker rooms? MGM? No. Venetian? No. Caesars? No. Guess why. It's not about making money. It's about making the most money. [/ QUOTE ] The earliest any of those rooms opened was April `05 with MGMs room.
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#79
11-25-2007, 08:05 PM
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Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Poker doesn't make money. Fact. [/ QUOTE ] Really? What do you base this fact on? I've seen financial reports that indicate that poker makes a pretty consistent and steady ROI for the casinos, even after overhead and re-appropriation of funds. Again, per sq/ft does it make as much as some other things? No. But is it a draw? Does it bring people to the casino? Does it add to the casino's overall appeal? I just don't get the arguement that poker in casinos is not a good/moneymaking idea. The numbers don't lie, first off. Second off, you can't discount the lure of the game, and what other "bells and whistles" casinos throw at you. It works, right? Trust me when I say this... and this should smack you in the face with common sense... Casinos are not in business because they waste time, money, or space with things that do not make them more profitable. [/ QUOTE ] I think in reality, poker is similar to the casinos pool, tommy bahamas store, health club, and fake diamond store. Are they important to have? Yes they are ammenities which are nice to have at a casino, an added bonus. But in reality, do you think they make up more than 3% of their bottom line? Prob not. Chevron gas stations are prob not making a ton of money off of the $.87 beef jerky and tic tacs sitting the counter, but people enjoy them, so there they sit. [/ QUOTE ] Read a few issues of Convenience Store News and you'll discover that's EXACTLY where they make money, not on gas. [/ QUOTE ] I was going to point this out. Not sure if it is still the case, but those places make basically nothing on gas (I once worked as a manager in a place that lost 1 cent on every gallon of gas for a while).
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#80
11-25-2007, 08:26 PM
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Re: let\'s get the facts straight: poker makes money
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Poker doesn't make money. Fact. [/ QUOTE ] Really? What do you base this fact on? I've seen financial reports that indicate that poker makes a pretty consistent and steady ROI for the casinos, even after overhead and re-appropriation of funds. Again, per sq/ft does it make as much as some other things? No. But is it a draw? Does it bring people to the casino? Does it add to the casino's overall appeal? I just don't get the arguement that poker in casinos is not a good/moneymaking idea. The numbers don't lie, first off. Second off, you can't discount the lure of the game, and what other "bells and whistles" casinos throw at you. It works, right? Trust me when I say this... and this should smack you in the face with common sense... Casinos are not in business because they waste time, money, or space with things that do not make them more profitable. [/ QUOTE ] I think in reality, poker is similar to the casinos pool, tommy bahamas store, health club, and fake diamond store. Are they important to have? Yes they are ammenities which are nice to have at a casino, an added bonus. But in reality, do you think they make up more than 3% of their bottom line? Prob not. Chevron gas stations are prob not making a ton of money off of the $.87 beef jerky and tic tacs sitting the counter, but people enjoy them, so there they sit. [/ QUOTE ] Read a few issues of Convenience Store News and you'll discover that's EXACTLY where they make money, not on gas. [/ QUOTE ] I was going to point this out. Not sure if it is still the case, but those places make basically nothing on gas (I once worked as a manager in a place that lost 1 cent on every gallon of gas for a while). [/ QUOTE ] Keep in mind that the dynamic of Las Vegas casinos have changed. It used to be that shows and restaurants and hotel rooms were all secondary to gaming. Nowadays they are a primary revenue source and continue to grow.
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