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  #61  
Old 11-29-2007, 12:02 PM
Komponist Komponist is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

Margaud wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe using a % br system and playing 1 level up (not fully stacked) would allow for good br management.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this essentially the Jesus Experiment?
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  #62  
Old 11-29-2007, 12:07 PM
0524432 0524432 is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]


Regarding the OP's question. I think the problem is that at low/mid stakes, there is still a wide range of skill level which is more profitable. The poker economy is a pyramid where all the cash goes to the top. The field of players at the high stakes level is much smaller and the difference in skill is not as wide. That means it's more of a gamble as your edges are smaller than it was at the lower games. More gamble + higher stakes is a recipe for bust.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point. imo, it's this combination of very little easy $ floating around in these HSNL/PLO tables and a self-destructive EGO that keeps these players from moving down to a level where they can easily make a wealthy living and still feel comfortable playing that those stakes after even the biggest of downswings.

I personally do not gamble in any way, other than with the luck involved in poker. I really can't level with the mindset of enormous flips, the pit, or even playing above and outside reasonable BR management in order to keep the game enjoyable. As far as I'm concerned this degenerate behavior is the single biggest leak in any poker player's game - thriving on the action.

....if there were only a way for disciplined (the real top players) to take advantage of these degens flips and HS pit games etc....casinos ftw
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  #63  
Old 11-29-2007, 12:31 PM
KamiKatze KamiKatze is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
What about Nikki Jedlicka specifically? I think a number of 2p2ers have a lot of respect for his game, and I KNOW Phil Ivey does. From what I've read it was a $1.1m downswing (rumored to be since he signed with FTP) that busted his online BR and has him saying he isn't planning on redepositing anytime soon. Was he just playing too high the whole time (during his $2m+ upswing AND $1m downswing? What is it with so many HS players (DB comes to mind) living the high life one day, and seemingly crippled the next?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was a 3,2 mil up-swing, this was after he started taking shots at the 200$/400$ PLO Tables at FTP, playing his A+ Game, really being completely focused.
After he was winning like crazy for approx. 2 months, it got hard to concentrate, since winning 300k in one session got a little boring.
So he started to get bored while playing, tilting some money off, the stakes simply didn't mean much to him.
That's when he started to make bad decisions, get unlucky, get "shy" on the poker tables, which enabled players, who have been at the top for such a long time, to take advantage of him, getting 1,1 mil back, this down-swing started right after he signed up with FTP, playing under Niki Jedlicka.
He has now 0,00 $ on FTP, and doesn't plan to start playing anytime soon.

This is ofcourse not the entire truth, but as much as I find out by googling / reading his blog / chatting with him.

-Kami
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  #64  
Old 11-29-2007, 12:51 PM
ArmenH ArmenH is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
full tilt- oh look this kai buxxe has played high stakes for a couple of weeks, lets sign him up.

It's hardly like he's had good results for a couple of years i.e aba, PA, Durrr

I guess a lot of poker players lose sight of the real value of money and just piss it away thinking they can win it back

[/ QUOTE ]

Fulltilt has offered PA sponsorships numerous times. He declined all. He is affiliated with Martin De Kniff European site.
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  #65  
Old 11-29-2007, 02:42 PM
lwlee lwlee is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

Here is another poker pro who bit the dust. Online limit holdem specialist who was fairly arrogant when he was moving up. He even wrote a poker book, the short handed section was considered pretty good.

Poker Chronicles
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  #66  
Old 11-29-2007, 03:06 PM
cunning cunning is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

I think skill is over rated in poker and varience has the ability to bust the so called pros. Lots of players have had long term luck in the game and are considered top players far too early in the game. I find it hard to understand where all the money comes from in the high stake games (especially online) when ~80% is apparently full time and winning player.
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  #67  
Old 11-29-2007, 03:23 PM
0524432 0524432 is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
Here is another poker pro who bit the dust. Online limit holdem specialist who was fairly arrogant when he was moving up. He even wrote a poker book, the short handed section was considered pretty good.

Poker Chronicles

[/ QUOTE ]

Most enjoyable paragraph I've read in a long time (from your PC link)

"Another thing to understand is that in poker you can't fake it, or at least you shouldn’t. If you're a writer, or an accountant, or a lawyer, or have just about any other occupation I can think of, you can phone it in when you need to and nothing too bad will happen. You can go to work, fly under the radar for a day, not be your fully productive self, and you'll still get paid. They won't cancel your health insurance and you'll still accrue your vacation time. It's likely nobody will even notice, and if they did, they might be understanding, since everyone is in that position sooner or later. At some jobs you can get away with this for days at a time, and a lot of people make entire careers out of it. "
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  #68  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:23 PM
Dire Dire is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

Bad bankroll management mixed with a poor conception of their own abilities.

100k hands of positive variance / aggressive bankroll management and a guy could go from playing 2/4 to 50/100 or even higher in a very short period of time. They're not going to have much of a grasp on reality when things stop going their way.

It should be practically impossible to bust your bankroll when playing at a reasonable level. There's so many levels to move down to. The only reason is arrogance.
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  #69  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:31 PM
Kevin Browne Kevin Browne is offline
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Posts: 120
Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

overconfidence, moving up too fast, being a degen.
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  #70  
Old 11-29-2007, 07:09 PM
gentlemole gentlemole is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

degenerate gamblers
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