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  #21  
Old 11-28-2007, 09:25 PM
GambleAB GambleAB is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

Almost no one is as good as they think they are. Some are not as good, but are still winning players, and some are going to be longterm losers. The long term is a VERY long time, especially if you are playing live and infrequently, so you are going to see a bunch of "great players" that don't adapt to the fact that they just aren't that great and slowly, over time, going broke just from playing poker. Add to that the fact that some people are playing out of their bankroll, the fact that everyone has life expenses that they need to take out of their bankroll, and the multitude of other leaks (pit games and drugs being the top two) and it's no surprise that you hear about different people going bust every year.
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  #22  
Old 11-28-2007, 10:20 PM
0524432 0524432 is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
I should really write this as some sort of a seperate post cause its so genius but i guess i'll write it here first as my trial run sort of deal.

The short of it is that poker is a game of investing money or gambling depending on how you play. But if we assume that we are playing under the pretense to invest our money intellegently than the same principles of investing in the stock market apply, however the stock market trades at a much larger level. The reason the tops pro's are broke is because they have reached the poker ceiling, its similar to the investment ceiling which goes by some name that i don't know. if you talk to really good investment bankers, the top ones, they will tell that they can basically make the same average returns year after year with work but not to to much...however, when their portfolio reaches around 500 million dollars then it becomes much more difficult to keep there high return rate. So i would propose that this is what has occured to the current breed of poker players. Because the poker economy is much small than the us stock market the ceiling is much lower.
So i would conclude that investing your money with poker it a good choice but only until say your reach 3 or so million to give an arbitary number. After that point it becomes much better to invest your money in a the stock market.

that'll be 2 cents

[/ QUOTE ]

interesting perspective, the relatively small/elite field as the highest of HSNL/PLO is at too high a level of skill to beat for a large enough winrate to overcome the inevitable blinds (god forbid antes DS), variance, tilt, etc?
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  #23  
Old 11-28-2007, 10:25 PM
Zorlac Zorlac is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

Take your pick:

paste--------------
Serotonin is a chemical in the brain that plays a key role in regulating mood and behavior. Norepinephrine, a hormone released in response to stress, has been linked to arousal and risk-taking in compulsive gamblers. Brain cells release dopamine as part of the reward system through which you learn to seek pleasurable stimuli, such as food and sex, and dopamine plays a role in developing addiction.
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  #24  
Old 11-28-2007, 10:26 PM
0524432 0524432 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 461
Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
Almost no one is as good as they think they are. Some are not as good, but are still winning players, and some are going to be longterm losers. The long term is a VERY long time, especially if you are playing live and infrequently, so you are going to see a bunch of "great players" that don't adapt to the fact that they just aren't that great and slowly, over time, going broke just from playing poker. Add to that the fact that some people are playing out of their bankroll, the fact that everyone has life expenses that they need to take out of their bankroll, and the multitude of other leaks (pit games and drugs being the top two) and it's no surprise that you hear about different people going bust every year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Aaron. I recently saw you shortstacking either the 2/4 or 3/6 HSPLO on FT. I know you dont regularly play HSPLO or HSNL, on FTP anyways, were you playing outside your BR? Was there any special reason you were giving that game a shot? Curious is all....
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2007, 10:29 PM
Howard Treesong Howard Treesong is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
Almost no one is as good as they think they are. Some are not as good, but are still winning players, and some are going to be longterm losers. The long term is a VERY long time, especially if you are playing live and infrequently, so you are going to see a bunch of "great players" that don't adapt to the fact that they just aren't that great and slowly, over time, going broke just from playing poker. Add to that the fact that some people are playing out of their bankroll, the fact that everyone has life expenses that they need to take out of their bankroll, and the multitude of other leaks (pit games and drugs being the top two) and it's no surprise that you hear about different people going bust every year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me add that playing poker well requires a total disregard for money while gambling with it. Life, on the other hand, requires significant regard for money in deciding how to spend it. The tension between the two is obvious, and it is a rare breed that can shift gears between the two.
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  #26  
Old 11-28-2007, 10:30 PM
JokersAttack JokersAttack is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

Because the play in games where they have little to no edge for massive stakes. And due to pride are unable to move down when they should. That = succeptible to variance = eventually busto.
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  #27  
Old 11-28-2007, 10:30 PM
JJBuffone JJBuffone is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
Coke is a helluva drug.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT
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  #28  
Old 11-28-2007, 10:36 PM
0524432 0524432 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 461
Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
Take your pick:

paste--------------
Serotonin is a chemical in the brain that plays a key role in regulating mood and behavior. Norepinephrine, a hormone released in response to stress, has been linked to arousal and risk-taking in compulsive gamblers. Brain cells release dopamine as part of the reward system through which you learn to seek pleasurable stimuli, such as food and sex, and dopamine plays a role in developing addiction.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was recently speaking with Alan Schoonmaker, Dr. of Industrial Psychology at Harvard University (who also writes excellent articles for Cardplayer) about just this. I asked him a question to the effect of

"What is it about poker as a hobby that, unlike skiing or skydiving, that causes some people to lose all scope of "real life" and sometimes lose massive amounts of $ via tilt or destroy their marriage/family etc.?"

Dr. Schoonmaker's field is not that of a chemical nature, but he told me that he does not know of any conclusive evidence that the poker experience causes the release of chemicals in the human body that could be perceived as a "physically addictive" nature.

I would like to see an article or study you may know of that relate human hormones to poker.
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  #29  
Old 11-28-2007, 10:39 PM
Bryan15 Bryan15 is offline
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Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

[ QUOTE ]
Balloon payments on adjustable rate mortgages.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol...time to refi
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  #30  
Old 11-28-2007, 10:40 PM
LonesomeFugitive LonesomeFugitive is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 378
Default Re: What\'s the REAL reason(s) so many \"top\" players are busto?

the real reason top players are busto = they're gamblers

simple, isn't it??
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