ZOMG AMT IS POSTING A HAND: 60 turbo bvb tricky river spot v. reg?

[IFoldPktOnes]

Raising a specific amount on the river depending on your own hand strength should be exploitable by a "solid, thinking, winning regular", so if you decide to make a smaller raise on the river shouldn't you be doing it with your entire range? I think that would be giving up value with your stronger hands.

[AMT]

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Raising a specific amount on the river depending on your own hand strength should be exploitable by a "solid, thinking, winning regular", so if you decide to make a smaller raise on the river shouldn't you be doing it with your entire range? I think that would be giving up value with your stronger hands.

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a) in all likelihood, the hand would've played out differently if i had a stronger hand, and therefore we can't make the same inferences...i would've tried to maximize value in earlier spots and i think its way too hand specific to judge.

b) even if the same line happened to come about it wouldnt really be giving up more value in the particular spot because it wouldn't change our read of his hand strength much and we'd still have to consider lines to get similar value as we are as it stands.

[donkeykong2]

raise, it s bvb and your hand is pretty good for the circumstances

[IFoldPktOnes]

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a) in all likelihood, the hand would've played out differently if i had a stronger hand, and therefore we can't make the same inferences...i would've tried to maximize value in earlier spots and i think its way too hand specific to judge.


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That just means that stronger hands aren't in your hand range. Making your entire range weak 2-pair, and so your whole raising range would be played the same, and you are agreeing with me [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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b) even if the same line happened to come about it wouldnt really be giving up more value in the particular spot because it wouldn't change our read of his hand strength much and we'd still have to consider lines to get similar value as we are as it stands.


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I was thinking more in general terms, that whenever your raise different amounts with different hand strengths then it makes it easier for your opponents to read your hand. E.g. if you min-raised this river I wouldn't put JT in your range.

[AMT]

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a) in all likelihood, the hand would've played out differently if i had a stronger hand, and therefore we can't make the same inferences...i would've tried to maximize value in earlier spots and i think its way too hand specific to judge.


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That just means that stronger hands aren't in your hand range. Making your entire range weak 2-pair, and so your whole raising range would be played the same, and you are agreeing with me [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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b) even if the same line happened to come about it wouldnt really be giving up more value in the particular spot because it wouldn't change our read of his hand strength much and we'd still have to consider lines to get similar value as we are as it stands.


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I was thinking more in general terms, that whenever your raise different amounts with different hand strengths then it makes it easier for your opponents to read your hand. E.g. if you min-raised this river I wouldn't put JT in your range.

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again, its still really hard to analyze accurately, but just because my hand is stronger doesn't mean I can get more value out of his. People are debating on, when raising as played as is, if the difference of 50 chips is significant. given the pot size, it wouldnt be that much bigger, so how much of a difference is it going to make? remember *we do rarely get to the same situation in those spots even considering your most recent reply so the entire point is somewhat moot given the hand context*

a lot of the time with big hands you dont get value by raising huge, so the short answer to your point of refutation is that yeah, id raise small in a small pot bvb situation vs a reg with lots of big hands, it simply depends, so i dont think we can make many blanket statements about how bad it is to select a small raise size when I probably mix it up well.

Also, most posters often forget that, while aspects of raise sizing are "Exploitable" by doing things such as making certain raise sizes for certain hands, that most opponents arent going to be paying enough attention to the intricacies of your bet sizer alteration to the point of exploiting, especially in this situation bvb vs a reg that rarely comes up (hence its posting, and hence why i dont think any raise size that we conclude on would infer that it'd be giving anything away in another situation). I really don't think we can apply any of those specific hypothetical knowledges and scenarios to a point where people are exploiting based on that (or are able to) at all.

[IFoldPktOnes]

I understand and agree with the points you're making AMT, I'm just a huge nit when it comes to poker theory and I can't help it.