AQ on KK flop

[Xylocain]

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When I 3popped it was HU.

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So because everyone who didnt have K3 folded, that would reduce the chance of the guy who c/r having a K?

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it's 25-30% of the time a bluff.

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In a multiway pot this is a gross overestimate, and it will cost you 3 BB to find out if he has AA, 99 or K3.

[DBSpecial]

On the river you're not getting 1 more bet from him if he can't beat your high card, you're just giving him 1 more bet when he calls or raises with.. any of the many hands that beat you.

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don't push UI high cards at this level ...

find a better table ... you wont beat the rake

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Usually I'm looking for looser tables, but now and then ..I just wanna know [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Any suggestions for a good line here ?

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this is a pocket pair almost all the time ... it's a prefect flop for and perfect position for the guy that raised

c-betting that flop with 3 opponents, is also questionable ... you'll get played back at a lot (especially in taggish games)

playing at any kind of tight table at these stacks will kill you ... you can't beat the game

you can 'find out' later

maybe play in a micro's donkament

the sign of a good player is to find bad players [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] (you don't need to be very good at this game to win ... just better than your opponents)

[nightwood]

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3 pop was an easy one for me... I might have the best hand ...

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I don't think I can fold to the raise, I guesstimate (at that table) it's 25-30% of the time a bluff.

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These two thoughts are contradictory, DUCY?

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Sure, cuz it means I'm behind most of the time. This was a hand I really felt lost at. When I played it and got c/r-ed I thought "Hell, I can't fold this or I'll be raised on any damn paired flop"

[CrMenace]

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25-30% of the time a bluff.

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lol ...

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Aw, well ... I meant 25-30% when villain doesn't hold a K.

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Nightwood, here's an exercise for you:
- give the range of hands villain may have at this point. You can even give a % for stone bluff.
- For those hands that we have a reasonable chance of beating (e.g. sucking out on), determine how often we will win.
- Based on this, determine what the EV of a bet is.

I'll get you started:
Villain has a king 40%
Villain has pocket pair less than Q 40%
Villain is on a stone bluff 20%

What's the EV of a bet here?

[nightwood]

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Nightwood, here's an exercise for you:

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CR, I'll definitely do it, but I'll do it tomorrow (it's midnight in thirty here)

[CrMenace]

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3 pop was an easy one for me... I might have the best hand ...

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I don't think I can fold to the raise, I guesstimate (at that table) it's 25-30% of the time a bluff.

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These two thoughts are contradictory, DUCY?

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Sure, cuz it means I'm behind most of the time. This was a hand I really felt lost at. When I played it and got c/r-ed I thought "Hell, I can't fold this or I'll be raised on any damn paired flop"

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You realize folding and 3-betting were not your only two options, right?

[nightwood]

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You realize folding and 3-betting were not your only two options, right?

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Ya, when I played my (very stupid) reasoning was: it's either he has a king or he doesn't and believes I have one. I didn't care about the rest. It's plain dumb, I know.

When I c-bet into the multiway I wanted to know what's up. I was ready to let go if more than one came along.

So I reviewed my hands, looked at this one and thought .. damn, I know I played [censored] but how do you better. If I call - what then ? Do I continue to c/c (UI) for the rest ? Should I fold to another bet ? I simply didn't know.

So I understand now I picked one of the worst spots possible.

I'll do the calc and fwiw villain kept 82d [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[Smurph64]

Gut action is gut action in my book. You know the play is bogus but you do it because you believe this guy is a dolt.

He bluffs too much right? So you make a stand and then what on the river you go oh oh?

Be an idiot all the way and bet the river because once he calls your 3 bet on the flop you are done.

But the better path here is to call the flop and fold on the turn.

Or do what I try and do and fold the flop and wait to gut him on a bluff some other time when I can back it up.

[DBSpecial]

Why would you c/c it down UI? You have.. nothing. c/c can't be anything like the right play here.
I call the flop raise and c/f the turn UI.