Stars VIP Wild speculation

[NewGuy]

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Players who are reaching 750k+ VPP are paying A TON more rake than the 100K VPP guys, so what is wrong with more rewards going towards them?

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Nothing, PokerBoy. I think dramatically more rewards should (and DO) go to players reaching 500-750k+ VPPs. I actually think your ideas are solid as far as adding more incentives between 500k-1M and make perfect logical sense.

I have no problem with people voicing their displeasure with freerolls or the opinion that they hold no value to them.

But IMO arguing that the freerolls should be scrapped to eliminate a lack of equal treatment, then re-allocating the funds to 500k+ players (since the SuperNova budget is fixed and a zero-sum game), while claiming this is out of a sense of fairness and not self-interest is disingenuous at best.

Players in the 100k-200k range are lower volume, lower profit customers of Stars. Obviously they deserve a dramatically lower financial incentive than those generating 5x the revenue. That doesn't mean arbitrarily eliminating a $1,000 (or $3,000) incentive for those players would be a wise marketing decision by Stars.

[1p0kerboy]

Okay.

Assuming 100 players make it to Supernova+.

If the 50k freeroll is cut, that's going to free up about 2.5 million dollars.

This program would cost about 1.7 million IF 100 players make it.

That would leave $800,000 (and Stars could certainly up this figure) to run promotions for the smaller Novas (be it bonuses or tournament packages or whatever).

[NewGuy]

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The big benefit from sending that many people to an event is that with so many people it increases the odds of someone making it pretty deep in the tournament which would be great publicity. I think Moneymaker's win was a big windfall for Stars and online poker in general.


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Ding!

Chris Moneymaker turned $40 into a WSOP ME win.

Imagine the publicity Stars gets when one of their players wins a major from a free seat.

Interviewer: "So how much did you spend to get into the tournament?"
Player: "Nothing. Stars gave me a free seat because I play at their site so much."

This year I'm gonna make about 500,000VPP. And I play a lot. But if Stars had a package like this for the 750 mark I would try my hardest to get there.

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Along these lines, I think re-allocating a good portion of the SuperNova freeroll budget to be a monthly super-satellite to win a WSOP ME seat has some merit. Fewer conflicts with people's personal time (1x / month) , perhaps more marketing bang for the buck as well. These could supplement whatever other incentive Stars decides on, it would not need to be an either/or all-or-nothing.

[1p0kerboy]

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The big benefit from sending that many people to an event is that with so many people it increases the odds of someone making it pretty deep in the tournament which would be great publicity. I think Moneymaker's win was a big windfall for Stars and online poker in general.


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Ding!

Chris Moneymaker turned $40 into a WSOP ME win.

Imagine the publicity Stars gets when one of their players wins a major from a free seat.

Interviewer: "So how much did you spend to get into the tournament?"
Player: "Nothing. Stars gave me a free seat because I play at their site so much."

This year I'm gonna make about 500,000VPP. And I play a lot. But if Stars had a package like this for the 750 mark I would try my hardest to get there.

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Along these lines, I think re-allocating a good portion of the SuperNova freeroll budget to be a monthly super-satellite to win a WSOP ME seat has some merit. Fewer conflicts with people's personal time (1x / month) , perhaps more marketing bang for the buck as well. These could supplement whatever other incentive Stars decides on, it would not need to be an either/or all-or-nothing.

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FWIW I think this is a great idea as well.

ADD: They could even change their promtion on a month-by-month basis.

[NewGuy]

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Okay.

Assuming 100 players make it to Supernova+.

If the 50k freeroll is cut, that's going to free up about 2.5 million dollars.

This program would cost about 1.7 million IF 100 players make it.

That would leave $800,000 (and Stars could certainly up this figure) to run promotions for the smaller Novas (be it bonuses or tournament packages or whatever).

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I think your idea for SuperNova+ is fine, but I don't think Stars needs to cut benefits to lower tier SuperNovas to fund it. I just don't agree with the premise that their total SuperNova marketing budget is a fixed $ amount.

I agree with you it makes sense to spend more money on those SuperNova+ candidates. I'm not sure of the precise math here, but assuming Stars got even 50 people to "go for SuperNova+" by adding your incentive idea, your program becomes self-funding.

Say even 50 people x ~200k in "extra VPP" (again assuming the promo changes the behavior of these "on the bubble" deciding whther to go for 750k) = 10M "extra" VPPs that Stars would not have gotten = ~$2.5M in extra revenue.

My numbers may be off, but I think your concept makes sense because it gets people to "chase" for the next level, generating (in theory anyway) enough to fund the incentive. That's how all of these tiers are likely intended to be set up. Stars dangles the carrot, getting enough people to play more than they would have (i.e., not play on another site to "get to the next level"), and this in turn earns Stars a positive return on those marketing $s spent.

In a nutshell, your SuperNova+ idea is good, but mutually exclusive of whether Stars should offer an incentive to the 100-200k crowd.

[Henry17]

I think 100 is too low an estimate. They have 6 SNEs so far and I think they are expecting 30-35 by years end. I think at least 300 and probably closer to 500 SN hit 500k.

My major issue with the freerolls is that they pool communal money. I don't think any of the package should be communal. One option is to have a Freeroll with a variable prize pool. SNs can choose to either take the bonus or play the freeroll. The value of the freeroll will be determined by the number of SNs who choose to play it.

[1p0kerboy]

NG-

That was a great post.

You make a good point that Supernova+ would likely generate enough revenue in and of itself to fund the proposed rewards (and still give Stars a nice profit with their players playing major events drenched in Stars' gear).

I think there are a lot of part-time and/or small stakes players that feel like they could have a shot (but obviously don't have a snowball's chance in hell at Elite).

Scottyy, can this idea be considered?

[MicroBob]

I don't think Stars gets a huge amount of benefit from an EPT win these days. It helps to a certain extent of course. But comparing it with the Moneymaker impact is ridiculous.

You are guys who are on Stars a lot and possibly follow this stuff a little bit like me.
Off the top of my head, I know who won the last Monte Carlo event. I'm pretty sure he qualified for the event via Stars but I really am not positive.
Without looking it up, do you guys even know who I am talking about?

Since I anticipate maybe making it to 750k this year and possibly about the same next year of course I like the way pokerboy has this set up. If they did this I would love it.
But whether Stars really will is the greater issue. They don't want to leave more of the casual 'barely SN's' out in the cold and the lack of excitement for a new incentive that most of them aren't going to have a prayer of attaining while also taking away the freerolls that Stars is trying to get them excited about is not a strategy Stars is going to be running to.

Also, when analyzing the amount that Stars pays to the 100+ players who reach SN+ one also has to think of all those extra FPP's they'll be giving out. Not a huge impact. But shouldn't be dismissed either.

Again, obviously not hating the idea. If they want to benefit the somewhat higher-volume players like me who aren't the very highest volume players then that's great. Works perfectly for me and other players who are able to make it to 750k somewhat realistically but have a tough time getting to 1-mil.

[1p0kerboy]

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You are guys who are on Stars a lot and possibly follow this stuff a little bit like me.
Off the top of my head, I know who won the last Monte Carlo event. I'm pretty sure he qualified for the event via Stars but I really am not positive.
Without looking it up, do you guys even know who I am talking about?


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Grunching (for those that know what that is).

IIRC, Gavin Griffin won the last Monte Carlo event.

I remember him from his WSOP win in the PLH event a few years ago when Phil Hellmuth was at the final table.

I also remember after his win in the EPT he got the front cover of Cardplayer with the main article being about him.

He dyed his hair pink to raise awareness for breast cancer.

AMIRITE?

[1p0kerboy]

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Also, when analyzing the amount that Stars pays to the 100+ players who reach SN+ one also has to think of all those extra FPP's they'll be giving out.

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This doesn't make any sense.

FPP are only given out when there is a rake. They are also worth less than the rake. With each FPP Stars gives out, they actually make money.

If you are referring to the "additional multiplier", it is only an additional 50%. This amounts to ~$5k a year. But under my plan, the $7.5k milestone bonus is gone (to make way for the added benefits of SN+) which would help curb the cost a little bit.

You'll also notice that under my plan, there is still ~$1,000,000 to run promtions specific to the smaller SNs.