Turn c/r or Donk?

MAxx · #1 05-10-2007, 09:33 AM

PF 3better seems to be a 30/20 laggish. PF Capper was 20/10/2

Given the PF action, the fact that my hand is well disguised, my relative position, my opponents... what is the best play on the turn? Please give your reasoning for your action.

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP 3-bets, 1 fold, Button caps, 2 folds, Hero calls, MP calls.

Flop: (13.40 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (8.20 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)

Mozart · #2 05-10-2007, 09:52 AM

I would fold preflop.

i donkbet here because we want that MP calls. If we check-raise MP will often fold. Button could also check-behind on the Turn. If button has KK he will give you action after a donkbet.

Mozart · #3 05-10-2007, 09:53 AM

sry

Lost Wages · #4 05-10-2007, 10:03 AM

I vote for betting. First, the button could check through with QQ/TT/AQs which would be a disaster. Second, he's fairly likely to raise with AA/AK because a donk bet here looks, well, donkish. If you CR you'll probably only get 3 bet by KK/JJ.

Lost Wages

aargh57 · #5 05-10-2007, 10:50 AM

I'm thinking that I like a donk here. I think that you've got a good chance of it getting raised by either of two villains and it'd be great if MP raised and button calls so you can 3 bet. Worst case scenario though is if MP folds and button just calls but I really think on this board one of the villains is putting in a raise here. If we try to c/r then we may end up getting MP to fold and we only get 2 bets from button. I just think that we've got a very good chance to get a lot of action with a donk here, more than we probably will get with a c/r.

aargh57 · #6 05-10-2007, 10:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

How bad is this? I ask because at first this was my gut reaction too but then thinking about it I see that we're getting 5.5 to one on a call here. Do we call and then just muck unless the flop hits us really hard? The problem I have here is if we get top pair it can be very expensive to see the turn here with a probable worse hand. Of course, I suppose with Top pair the pot is big enough to continue with the outs that we have depending on the board.

TheWunderkind · #7 05-10-2007, 11:05 AM

I think he ment folding in the first place..calling that cap is meh...i dont like it very much > dont mind folding to the cap too but why dont we raise the Flop or even b/3b the Flop?

As palyed i donk that Turn

yourface · #8 05-10-2007, 11:24 AM

I wouldn't raise that preflop all of the time, but it's good to mix it up. easy call of preflop cap imo; we are getting 5:1 and our hand plays well multiway and can win big pots.

I think we need to put more bets in on the flop. we have a big equity edge here over everything but a set. I like a flop lead hoping to be raised by the button so we can jam it up, but c/r is ok too. we might even fold out JJ-QQ since button seems nitty, but we're a favourite over those hands anyways.

I don't think it matters too much what you do on the turn. both lines are fine but I lean towards a donk/tre.

edit: also I think that MP calls 2 with pretty much the same range he calls 1 with in this ginormous pot (unless he is a terrible hand reader and is planning on calling down 99-TT) so I'm not too worried about folding him out. although, it would be nice to fold out a better diamond; raises our equity around 5%.

mute · #9 05-10-2007, 11:49 AM

Donking is good here because even if the c/r works you may shut out MP (who might have called a riverbet too) and ofcourse a checkthru would be a disaster. Also you get the chance to bet/3bet against 2 pair/set hands.

If the preflopcapper was 2nd to act, checkraising becomes much more appealing.

kaby · #10 05-10-2007, 12:42 PM

Depends on reads a bit but I think c(/r obv) flop > bet flop. Button will never check behind but I can see a 20/10/2 type not raise anything but AK KK AA here. On the other hand as he coldcapped those hands make a lot of his range (JJ+, AK imho)... Maybe you should bet anyway... yeah bet flop hoping you get a chance to 3bang it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

As played turn is an easy donk imho, the only hand that we want to face with 2 is AQ and his range is much bigger.