2-pair and FD turn play.

Dankenstein · #1 11-12-2007, 06:08 PM

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 3 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, MP3 caps, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (16.20 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 18.20 BB

Just wondering what you all think of this hand. Particularly the turn. I had been at the table for 1 orbit no real reads on my opponent.

tyler_cracker · #2 11-12-2007, 06:13 PM

dank,

this is fine.

miles,

do you prefer checking the flop since the board is super coordinated, our equity is fantastic, and we will be able to c/r here ~always? do you bet and hope to 3bet?

MoonOrb · #3 11-12-2007, 06:18 PM

That looks pretty good to me. That looks an awful lot like a slowplayed JT? Either way, I c/c the river after the turn is capped.

bellatrix · #4 11-12-2007, 06:27 PM

nh, I play it the same.

Fadook · #5 11-12-2007, 07:20 PM

I dunno, what worse hand is he raising the turn with? 83 and 93 are unlikely, 89 is a possibilty. I don't think calling down from the turn raise would be at all bad.

milesdyson · #6 11-12-2007, 07:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
miles,
do you prefer checking the flop since the board is super coordinated, our equity is fantastic, and we will be able to c/r here ~always? do you bet and hope to 3bet?

[/ QUOTE ]
hard for me to try to answer since there's a lot going on.

it's 4-way and someone in LP is not likely to bet very light. so my concern is if i succeed in checkraising someone, if i don't hit my draw there won't be much value in a river bet since i don't have a kicker. also, the only way i'd bet/3-bet is if i bet, the first guy raises and the other two coldcall. the additional outs to trips/2pair don't mean nearly as much on a board like this when facing aggression. JT/Q9/Q8/88/better queens are a lot of hands that devalue those outs. so this is a spot where if i can get a lot of bets in multiway on the flop, my pair almost doesn't matter and i'm more or less playing it as a flush draw.

so how would i play the hand? it think i'd go ahead and bet the flop, not expecting to 3-bet a raise very often because when i get raised my hand becomes a lot more like a nut flush draw and a lot less like top pair. then, i'd proceed to value bet my top pair on the turn and river hoping to be called by hands like J9/A8/etc.

so i agree with hero's flop and turn bets. however, i don't agree with the turn 3-bet. you might say, "well the other guy has T9 so we want him out." well, you only care about him if your hand is the best hand in the first place. on Q983, top and bottom isn't very strong facing a raise in a protected pot. Q9, Q8, JT, and 88 make up a lot of better hands against which your raise does nothing for you and a lot for him. can you think of a lot of worse hands that he can have here? i can't. strong single pair hands usually play straightforwardly and start the raising on the flop.

also, if you hold the best hand, you have the flush draw that eliminates outs for your opponents anyway. and if you have the best hand, the guy with A9/whatever usually throws another bet away on the river (which you'd forgo by making him fold the turn). again though, the main reason to not 3-bet the turn is simply because you're not ahead of the raiser often enough.

DavidSRT · #7 11-12-2007, 07:51 PM

Great board for your hand.

I would probably have played this the same way. It looks like MP3 might have a stronger Q something like QJ, or QT and wanted to wait to the turn to pop you, they may have also limped with something like 89 and flopped two pair. Again I can see them waiting to the turn to raise. Both of these hands you have beat, and with the your flush draw I like the three bet on the turn, the cap is pretty scary, so I like the C/C

NH imo

neurotiq · #8 11-12-2007, 08:14 PM

Looks good to me. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

bravos1 · #9 11-12-2007, 08:16 PM

what range of hands do you put him on to 3bet the turn? His range has you crushed here.

LateFlag · #10 11-12-2007, 10:39 PM

I switch to call-down mode after I get raised on the turn. You're good here plenty often enough to call down, but not often enough to put in an extra bet at the risk of a cap.