Bible Club - Matthew

madnak · #1 12-20-2006, 12:09 AM

I really didn't want to start this on a bashing note, but I suppose you can only expect so much from a deeply biased host. Frankly I find the story bizarre and a little bit creepy. I'm also struck by how precisely the story of Jesus resembles the story of a cult of personality. Virtually everything - from events to techniques to teachings - is straight out of the CoP book.

Partly because I'm too tired and partly because I want to see how it develops, I'm not going to go into a big thing quoting verses and explaining my theory of "Jesus the con man." Any strong counterpoint? Especially from the atheist wing?

runner4life7 · #2 12-20-2006, 01:12 AM

if you really felt this way save yourself the time and stop reading now. you have nothing to gain from reading the rest.

vhawk01 · #3 12-20-2006, 02:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
if you really felt this way save yourself the time and stop reading now. you have nothing to gain from reading the rest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please feel free to jump off a bridge. We are trying to have a Bible study group, because if nothing else it is an important book. In addition, several Christians have explained to us that this is the only true way to understand God, and that we cannot properly argue or criticize that which we do not understand. So we are trying to make an honest effort. If you plan on adding some useful insight from someone who has read the entire book several times and has a far greater grasp of it than us, feel free. If you plan on sniping at us and in general being shameful and embarassing to Christians, do it in another thread.

I'm serious, ruin something else.

vhawk01 · #4 12-20-2006, 02:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I really didn't want to start this on a bashing note, but I suppose you can only expect so much from a deeply biased host. Frankly I find the story bizarre and a little bit creepy. I'm also struck by how precisely the story of Jesus resembles the story of a cult of personality. Virtually everything - from events to techniques to teachings - is straight out of the CoP book.

Partly because I'm too tired and partly because I want to see how it develops, I'm not going to go into a big thing quoting verses and explaining my theory of "Jesus the con man." Any strong counterpoint? Especially from the atheist wing?

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the interesting themes I got was how Matthew seemed to think it was important to show how Jesus was fulfilling the messianic prophecies throughout, but...well...the term self-fulfilling came to mind several times. The prophecies claimed the child would be named Emmanuel, first off. And Joseph took the child to Egypt for the purpose of fulfilling the prophecy, although it was also at the behest of God. It just seemed like the majority of fulfilled prophecies could easily be explained by Joseph simply being conversant in them...which he would have been, right? Joseph was a Jew and all of these prophecies would have been known for hundreds of years.

There were other things I thought were interesting, but thats my start.

runner4life7 · #5 12-20-2006, 02:56 AM

I'm not trying to ruin anything, everything I said I meant in a serious way. He will just get very angry from the rest of the bible if Matthew, one of the happier less boring books bothered him this much. Sorry if what I said was offensive or something, but read his reaction and tell me that I'm wrong.

MidGe · #6 12-20-2006, 03:15 AM

Well the first thing that jumped at me was the genealogy and the pre-eminence given to Joseph. At last this seems to contradict the virgin birth.

Then of course are already present brimstones and fires threat, so horrific, that you'd think both the personage of Jesus and the writers were psychopaths.

Having read it in its entirety, I'd classify it as a poor story telling, full of inherent contradictions, as well as contradictions with other books. It present a dubious moral model of infinite punishment for what appears to be just critical thinking or an unwillingness to pander to a tyrannical psychopath.

I give it 0.5 out of 10.0, if you are in to horror etc. I was really tempted to go for a 0.0 out of 10.0.

I would recommend a read of SAB for a more detailed view of a lot of the issues with this book, which are really too numerous to list in a post.

Xhad · #7 12-20-2006, 03:19 AM

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He will just get very angry from the rest of the bible if Matthew, one of the happier less boring books bothered him this much.

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The strongest emotional language he used was that the story was "creepy". Maybe you're just projecting your own anger at having your religion questioned.

runner4life7 · #8 12-20-2006, 03:30 AM

at least list some of the many contradictions.

it wasnt the words it was the tone, by all means keep reading, just gave my 2 cents to save him time.

MidGe · #9 12-20-2006, 03:36 AM

Here is a list of 116 contradictions in Matthews. I don't wish to hijack the thread but only would like to give the opportunity to open minded people to access the SAB site and see for themselves.

IronUnkind · #10 12-20-2006, 03:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well the first thing that jumped at me was the genealogy and the pre-eminence given to Joseph. At last this seems to contradict the virgin birth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since Matthew doesn't seem to be interested in presenting the genealogy in an historically precise manner, why should we assume that his mention of Joseph was intended to establish biological heredity?

The gospel writer, in fact, makes a point of mentioning that Joseph was the husband of Mary, and not, one might infer, a progenitor in his own right. It seems likely, then, that Matthew's purpose was to make a case for Jesus's legal (not consanguineous) right to bear the title of Christ (or Anointed One).