VERY serious friend related situation - Page 7

XXXNoahXXX · #61 10-30-2007, 10:09 AM

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-- I am yet to talk to the guy about it, but I may. As much as I could and would like to beat the [censored] out of him, I won't. He is a friend of mine.

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So I assume this means you believe he actually tried to rape this girl, but, seeing as you guys are such good friends and all, you don't feel like doing anything about him, well, sexually assaulting this girl.

That sounds cool.

What, exactly, qualifies as cause for severing a friendship with you? Ethnic cleansing campaign? Coprophagic necrophilia? Slow roll?

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loooooool. A+

Wynton · #62 10-30-2007, 11:38 AM

You might all be somewhat surprised how easily this kind of scenario can turn into a criminal conviction.

I represent a guy on appeal who was convicted of a relatively minor sexual abuse count.

The facts - in a nutshell - are that a 25 year old woman gets into the bed of a "family friend" who is 60 years old, supposedly just to rest for a couple of hours before meeting a friend later. There are other beds in the apartment, but she sees nothing wrong with it. She awakens to feeling this guy's hand on her stomach, she says. She pretends to be asleep - though with her eyes wide open - while he starts moving his hands around. For the next 30 minutes, he fondles her while she remains totally silent and still. She makes no effort to resist at all, supposedly because she was so stunned.

One of theories that led to his conviction was that his initial action of touching her stomach must have occurred while she was asleep - since he was doing that when she awoke. And because the law says that a person is incapable of consent when asleep, his conduct was deemed to be a form of sexual abuse.

I was hired after he was convicted, to handle the appeal. I think the case is nonsense and should be tossed, but there's a good chance the judges will not agree. I'm waiting for the decision right now.

Of course, a sleeping victim is different than a drunk victim; but in either case, an argument can be made that the victim was incapable of consent.

Los Feliz Slim · #63 10-30-2007, 11:52 AM

Wynton,

I agree that there's a very fine line here, which I'm sure results in unfairness on both sides of it. That said, a few people on here posted that attempting sexytime with a passed-out drunk woman is "making a move", which definitely makes me wonder how many guys think the same.

So, to me, it's clear that the law needs to err on the side of caution. I don't know how else to deal with it.

NT! · #64 10-30-2007, 12:07 PM

rushmore sweeps in for the headshot as usual

pirateboy · #65 10-30-2007, 12:09 PM

OP, we need more info on what she says he specifically did. What his peen in her vageen? Was he touching her vageen with his hand? Did she moan first?

Seriously, find out or tell us if you already know.

Bulletproof Monk · #66 10-30-2007, 10:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You might all be somewhat surprised how easily this kind of scenario can turn into a criminal conviction.

I represent a guy on appeal who was convicted of a relatively minor sexual abuse count.

The facts - in a nutshell - are that a 25 year old woman gets into the bed of a "family friend" who is 60 years old, supposedly just to rest for a couple of hours before meeting a friend later. There are other beds in the apartment, but she sees nothing wrong with it. She awakens to feeling this guy's hand on her stomach, she says. She pretends to be asleep - though with her eyes wide open - while he starts moving his hands around. For the next 30 minutes, he fondles her while she remains totally silent and still. She makes no effort to resist at all, supposedly because she was so stunned.

One of theories that led to his conviction was that his initial action of touching her stomach must have occurred while she was asleep - since he was doing that when she awoke. And because the law says that a person is incapable of consent when asleep, his conduct was deemed to be a form of sexual abuse.

I was hired after he was convicted, to handle the appeal. I think the case is nonsense and should be tossed, but there's a good chance the judges will not agree. I'm waiting for the decision right now.

Of course, a sleeping victim is different than a drunk victim; but in either case, an argument can be made that the victim was incapable of consent.

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serious question: was he asleep? has he admitted to being awake when it happened?

highlife · #67 10-31-2007, 12:21 AM

yeah this is very serious, you have known this girl for 7 whole weeks. this is SERIOUS. obv you are extremely close, obv.

btw, 100-1 she blacked out when they were hooking up. then she woke up while the guy was coming back for seconds.

highlife · #68 10-31-2007, 12:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
-- I am yet to talk to the guy about it, but I may. As much as I could and would like to beat the [censored] out of him, I won't. He is a friend of mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

So I assume this means you believe he actually tried to rape this girl, but, seeing as you guys are such good friends and all, you don't feel like doing anything about him, well, sexually assaulting this girl.

That sounds cool.

What, exactly, qualifies as cause for severing a friendship with you? Ethnic cleansing campaign? Coprophagic necrophilia? Slow roll?

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Slow roll imho.

MaxWeiss · #69 10-31-2007, 02:34 AM

Yeah, you really need to ask the guy what he thinks happened. Because she was so drunk, she might have willingly had sex and then fallen asleep and then woken up. Or she might have -- well any number of things could have happened. You really need to get all the facts you can from both of them and then make a judgment call on what to do based on what actually happened. If he really did attempt to slip it in while she was sleep and without her prior consent, that's rape, even if she was like passed out naked on the futon. But if she is not remembering everything or remembering hazy, you need to comfort her but still get it across to her that the guy was not intentionally raping her.

Obviously you lose her as a friend if the second route is taken because even if she was drunk as hell and there was a video tape of her saying "yes, [censored] me hard!!" she'd still claim otherwise and be pissed at you for not believing her.

Rape is very serious and if it indeed happened, you should call the police or at the very least beat the [censored] out of the guy. On the other hand, she was very drunk, and being falsely accused of rape is very serious and harmful too. Get as many facts as you can, and proceed from there.

Wynton · #70 10-31-2007, 07:57 AM

Bulletproof Monk,

The guy I represent currently denies that he even touched her. But I happen to think he's lying. My best guess is that he was cuddling her (which I don't think is a crime), that she woke up and he knew it, that he proceeded to fondle her (which I view as an awkward pass), and that it then became reasonable for him to assume consent on her part when she neglected to resist or utter a word.