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#12
03-13-2007, 05:46 PM
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Re: Comment Thread for Debate: The Merits of Anarchocapitalism
This is a response to LinusKS' post.
[ QUOTE ] It's only under good government that trade fourishes, economies develop, and the poor, the weak, and the unarmed can travel safely. Regardless of how you measure progress - whether by science, art, literature, or wealth - it's only possible where the rights of citizens are protected by government . This was true in Greece, it was true in Rome, and it's true today. [/ QUOTE ] Rome and Greece are terrible examples of of government protecting the rights of people, for as you said they only did this for their citizens. The poor, serf type classes, slaves, subsistence farmers, and others were not afforded the protection of the great City-States and were left at the mercy of roving bandits, invading barbarians and neighboring city-states. The history of Athens during the Peloponesian wars shows how the citizens would often hole up in the city during the campaign season while invaders would lay waste to the surrounding country side. The same for Rome during wars with Carthage. When Hannibal crossed the alps into northern Italy those who had paid tribute to Rome for her "protection" were abandoned and Rome kept much of its army in Spain fighting over the spoils and leaving their closest neighbors, many of whom were considered "allies" with two choices. Side with Hannibal and suffer Rome's wrath when Hannibal was finally ejected or voluntarily left, or remain on Rome's side and be destroyed by Hannibal now. Proverbial rock and a hard place. This is how the poor were treated under the "enlightened" Romans and Greeks. This has been the case for countless countries throughout history. Weather its local police refusing to protect factory workers from strike breakers in the US, or decades of oppression of the Irish (or the Scots) by the English, or any one of a couple of hundred other examples of the poor not being protected by the state, despite promises to do so. 
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#15
03-13-2007, 07:03 PM
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Re: Comment Thread for Debate: The Merits of Anarchocapitalism
[ QUOTE ]
tolbiny, Not sure what your point is there. Should a state have to protect non-citizens? [/ QUOTE ] Linus' post had points like this [ QUOTE ] It's only under good government that trade fourishes, economies develop, and the poor, the weak, and the unarmed can travel safely. [/ QUOTE ] And he cited Rome and Greece as general examples of economies flourishing because of states, and he very much implied that the poor in these societies were better off thanks to the states. In reality the poor in these societies were not cared for by the governments who got around the issue by declaring them non citizens. They were still taxed to varying degrees and subject to Roman and Greek laws, and there is no reason to assume that they were better off with a state being the dominant influence in the area than if there wasn't one.
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#17
03-14-2007, 12:39 PM
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Re: Comment Thread for Debate: The Merits of Anarchocapitalism
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This is a train wreck. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ]
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#18
03-14-2007, 12:46 PM
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Re: Comment Thread for Debate: The Merits of Anarchocapitalism
Oh man, you knew it was gonna be bad when Linus said this:
[ QUOTE ] I'm not going to say I'm an expert on the Austrian school. I haven't read much about it, except here. And to be honest, I'm glad I haven't read about it, except on the politics forum of 2+2, because it makes my head hurt. [/ QUOTE ] How can he intelligently argue against something he doesn't even know about or understand??
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#19
03-14-2007, 12:50 PM
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Re: Comment Thread for Debate: The Merits of Anarchocapitalism
[ QUOTE ]
Oh man, you knew it was gonna be bad when Linus said this: [ QUOTE ] I'm not going to say I'm an expert on the Austrian school. I haven't read much about it, except here. And to be honest, I'm glad I haven't read about it, except on the politics forum of 2+2, because it makes my head hurt. [/ QUOTE ] How can he intelligently argue against something he doesn't even know about or understand?? [/ QUOTE ] Easy, argue against someone else who doesn't know much or understand the topic.
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#20
03-14-2007, 12:52 PM
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Re: Comment Thread for Debate: The Merits of Anarchocapitalism
[ QUOTE ]
And he cited Rome and Greece as general examples of economies flourishing because of states, and he very much implied that the poor in these societies were better off thanks to the states. In reality the poor in these societies were not cared for by the governments who got around the issue by declaring them non citizens. They were still taxed to varying degrees and subject to Roman and Greek laws, and there is no reason to assume that they were better off with a state being the dominant influence in the area than if there wasn't one. [/ QUOTE ] All that proves is that beneficiaries of the state flourish and victims of the state suffer. Nothing new there. That is why the American people created their own state with themselves as beneficiaries.
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