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#1
11-16-2006, 01:48 PM
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Learning NL 1/2
1/2 blinds 200 stacks all around
I have 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] MP opens for 10. I call OTB and the flop is: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I have a gutshot. Villian bets $15 and I? Who calls here? A gutshot needs about 10.5:1. So in order to call don't we need to makeup an *average* of $160 on the turn + river? 
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#2
11-16-2006, 01:51 PM
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Re: Learning NL 1/2
How loose is MP? I never call, sometimes raise to like 40 though.
EDIT: Calling here is absolutely positively terrible. You are not stacking him 100%,even if in position. Calling here is a gross overestimation of implied odds. I guess if you wanted to call for floating purposes though, thats ok.
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#3
11-16-2006, 01:56 PM
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Re: Learning NL 1/2
You're talking like a limit player with the odds. You could raise as a read dependent play if you think villian's cbet is weak. If that raise is called, I likely take a free card on the turn and pray to hit on the river. You could fold the flop because you're learning as you say and don't want to make a play there. You could also call the flop as a "float" and fire at the turn if checked to no matter if you hit or not. All the options are what make NL fun.
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#5
11-16-2006, 02:09 PM
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Re: Learning NL 1/2
[ QUOTE ]
you can raise and you can fold but you sure as hell can't call [/ QUOTE ] Why what is your reasoning? On page 145 of Ed Millers book it says this is an easy call.
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#6
11-16-2006, 02:13 PM
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Re: Learning NL 1/2
I'd generally fold/rr this pre w/ 100bb stacks to a 5x open. Calling the flop is ok if you think you can take it away on the turn a portion of the time. Also, don't forget about our backdoor flush draw which is the nuts.
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#8
11-16-2006, 02:26 PM
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Re: Learning NL 1/2
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] you can raise and you can fold but you sure as hell can't call [/ QUOTE ] Why what is your reasoning? On page 145 of Ed Millers book it says this is an easy call. [/ QUOTE ] You are calling for a little bit of gutshot value, but a LOT of float/bluff value. its the combination that is valuable. It is by no means an easy call, especially not 100% of the time. Sometimes call, sometimes raise, sometimes fold.
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#9
11-16-2006, 02:27 PM
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Re: Learning NL 1/2
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] you can raise and you can fold but you sure as hell can't call [/ QUOTE ] Why what is your reasoning? On page 145 of Ed Millers book it says this is an easy call. [/ QUOTE ] I'd like some solid reasoning behind never calling here as well. I'd fold pretty easily but if I had to choose between raising or calling it wouldn't be so clear cut for me. Also, I'd usually fold this preflop (although I used to always call here). You just don't hit this hard enough and have the implied odds against most people to call off 5% of your stack here. Regarding NLTAP, I think it is generally much more geared towards high stakes games and the advice in the book contrasts pretty sharply vs standard SSNL advice especially preflop where Ed had you limping in even from late position with a variety of standard raising hands. That being said, there are a lot of gems in the book but I'm more interested in the Small Stakes NL Cash book coming out early next year. rvg
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#10
11-16-2006, 02:30 PM
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Re: Learning NL 1/2
[ QUOTE ]
you can raise and you can fold but you sure as hell can't call [/ QUOTE ] I think a raise is terrible here - its not a good spot for a semibluff. You called from LP preflop which suggests small pair/sc, so it wouldn't take a genius villain to read a raise for what it is - a semibluff. IMO, a call is not bad as it gives you a couple of ways to win on the turn - 1) you can hit. 2) If the turn is any [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] you can represent a flush. You also have a backdoor spade draw, so overall I think a call is not bad.
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