200NL: Yucky spot with TPTK

[TheDespot]

200NL FR

Hero ($197) is UTG with Ad-Kc

Hero raises to $9, MP ($201) calls, BB ($284) calls

Flop Ks-2c-10s (Pot: $28)
BB checks, Hero bets $20, MP calls $20, BB raises to $50, Hero?

First off, it was my third hand at the table so I had no reads or anything. And I was multitabling so I didn't reload after the blinds in time so please no "reload preflop" tips.

Anyways, in this spot I really thought about raising, calling, or folding. I put the MP player on some sort of spade draw though obviously I'm not positive. The question is what the BB has. I don't think he ever has air here. My problem was whether he could just be doing this with a weaker king than my own to define his hand or even a semi-bluffed spade draw. Of course he can also have K-10 or a set in which case I'm drawing pretty slim. A fold is clearly safe here but is it a little too weak? This is a pretty standard spot so what's the generally accepted way to go about playing this here?

[AllTheCheese]

I call. There are a bunch of cards I go broke on: nonspade T, 2, K, or A. Horrible spot though.

[rdrr]

I think a fold here might be correct, but I always convince myself that any villain capable of c/ring that retarded size 3-way on this board is stupid enough to do it with Axss or KQ [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[The Eureka Kid]

Yeah I probably fold, gross though. Even if he's raising with like p+fd or s+fd your equity isn't that great. Hard to see him donkishly raising a weaker king here.

[Belok]

If this is live, i push flop.

If online, highly depends on stats - but I cant put a player who makes a raise like this on a made hand. It is a very vulnerable board even for a hand like TT. I think calling and waiting for turn is the worst play...

[TheDespot]

[ QUOTE ]
If this is live, i push flop.

If online, highly depends on stats - but I cant put a player who makes a raise like this on a made hand. It is a very vulnerable board even for a hand like TT. I think calling and waiting for turn is the worst play...

[/ QUOTE ]

So you advocate a raise here?

[Belok]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If this is live, i push flop.

If online, highly depends on stats - but I cant put a player who makes a raise like this on a made hand. It is a very vulnerable board even for a hand like TT. I think calling and waiting for turn is the worst play...

[/ QUOTE ]

So you advocate a raise here?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a raise or fold situation, and you can really only make that decision by having some kind of read or stats on your player.

It is only 30$ to you, and the pot is 118. It seems like sick odds to call, but by the time you do, you only have 1 PSB left and there isnt a single card in the deck that could fall that makes you confident about your hand. Every card that helps you either completes a draw, or does not put you ahead of anything you're already beat by. If you just call, you are giving him the action, letting a turn card that you will never like fall, and letting him check behind on the turn if he does happen to miss.

But I also cant fold this for 30$ unless I have a read.


So if you think this is the type of player who would try to buy a free card holding a strong draw with a wimpy raise like this - Push over the top.

If you think he's the type who would make a stupid raise like this with a hand that beats you on a board this vulnerable - fold.

On second thought, any player who would make a raise like this on a board like this is probably not very good in the first place - I almost always push.

[AllTheCheese]

Why do we want to push and allow him to call a draw getting correct odds? This seems like an ideal spot for a stop and go. If turn comes nonspade T, K, A, 8 or lower (which is more than half the deck), we can shove and price him out. If he has a better hand, he'll insta-call obv but that would've happened if we pushed on the flop anyway. Folding, IMO, is a mistake with no reads.

[TheDespot]

I don't really like a push here either. We can narrow his range down pretty confidently to a big draw or a (somewhat?) big made hand. If I shove here, I don't think there is any hand at all that he can call with that I beat. And he's obviously calling with all the hands that have me crushed that he could have here. I elected to call here and then re-evaluate on the turn. If a scare card comes I'm probably done with the hand. If I have him beat here and he just has K-Q or something I think that will be reflected in how he reacts on the turn. I don't think he can keep firing with a marginal holding such as that or even a draw into two players.

On the actual hand, I called the raise as did the MP player (so now it's pretty obviously a draw)

The turn came a non-spade K.

The BB bet out $80 and I shoved. The MP folded what he said was As-Qs and the BB instacalled with his 10-10.

This card, I feel, is the only card that could drop that could really stack me here. If a blank falls and he fires hard like this again I have to give him credit here. But now three hands beat me here: 10-10, 2-2, or K-10. Of course these are all possibilities, but at this point in the hand I just went with it and hoped to see a K-Q or a random semi-bluff or something.

In retrospect, I think a fold is probably best on the flop here (and this is not just because of the results of the hand). Though it may be a tad weak, it certainly helps to avoid very sticky situations that could come up after the flop that are just unpleasant and will almost certainly be for my whole stack.

[Lansingg]

Tough situation