RiverRaisewith Bottom 2pair?

[Teja500]

Villian is 35/16 and postflop he plays something between agressiv and passiv lol. Well preflop might be close but i like to play any suited vs SB open. He has a relativ low WTS so sometimes (not often) he will fold a better hand on the turn.What about the river play?

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3SB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2.5BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (8.5BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, Hero ?

[NinaWilliams]

I wouldnt. His line looks like he can easily beat 2 pair. Also the turn is bad; hes never folding a better hand. I might even fold the flop here. Does anyone else?

[Oink]

Call turn bet. Dont raise

As played call river and expect to loose

[midnightpulp]

Raise it. Unlikely a blind has a hand that beats you here. You're crushing AA,KK,AQ,KQ,QJ and only behind to QT,55,44. I think Q5-4, T5-4 are a bit unlikely, but possible.

Oh and I don't like the turn raise. Since you have a bunch of outs, just call. I think it's best to employ the FSD move when can auto-muck to a 3 bet, and obviously you can here.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise it. Unlikely a blind has a hand that beats you here. You're crushing AA,KK,AQ,KQ,QJ and only behind to QT,55,44. I think Q5-4 are a bit unlikely, but possible.


[/ QUOTE ]

You need to discount AA, KK and Qx. Its far from every villain who 3-bets those.

You also need to add TT, Q5s, Q4s, Q2s, 54s.

If you cant fold to a 3-bet its not a raise. Even if you can fold to a 3-bet I doubt its a raise - but havent done the math.

[midnightpulp]

Forgot to add TT. I think Q2 is unlikely given he 3 bet turn.

But yeah, I like a call more unless we have a great read on villain's turn 3 betting range.

[Absolution]

This seems like a fairly easy raise in a blind battle. This will really tilt him if he lost. I don't mind the pre-flop call.

[jstill]

i dont like the turn raise here but I dont really have good reasons other than u have to call a 3bet and u have less fold equity in a blind battle, most people bet call the turn with any PP here I think with all the potential draws so it just is a slightly -EV or break even play that adds variance.

U guys all left QQ out of his range as well, its certainly possible, and yes u have to discount AA KK AQ KQ, not every villain 3 bets those every time (its more likely if he expects u to 3bet TPGK and all PPs though keep that in mind when discounting), but probably always 3bets with QT TT QQ 44 and 55... so combo wise your losing to 19 and beating 36 which you have to discount. Vs that range offering up 3:2 on a raise it seems slightly -EV if you can't fold to a 3bet, if you discount KQ AQ or even overpairs quite a bit due to the turn 3bet (say maybe 75% of unknowns 3bet those or basing this on recent history with villain) then raise folding even if u never folded a winner (which you can't assume) would get thinnish. Throw in a few more hands like Q5 he might steal and the range shifts less in favor of a raise.

fwiw I think preflop is fine, but thinking about wtsd stats and trying to bluff him u should remember most players even weak tighties show down far more in blind battles than other situations.

[Cobretti]

I disagree with about everyone here.

I think the turn is almost an auto-raise. We can't give the sb much credit for much here.

I think it is huge mistake to just call the turn and give him free draws to his outs on a drawish board. I want to make him pay. If you can't raise here, he wins the % of times he gets you to fold in this situation and he with % of time he outdraws you. Also, with a raise, you can get him to possibly fold and under pair.

I really love to play a player who will not raise me with a pair in situations like this because I am going to be firing a lot of flop/turns with nothing and I like to get free draws when an opponent is ahead.

The 3-bet absolutely sucks but I would call. When we hit the 2-pair on the river I would certainly give consideration to raising depending on the opponent.

[NinaWilliams]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldnt. His line looks like he can easily beat 2 pair. Also the turn is bad; hes never folding a better hand. I might even fold the flop here. Does anyone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the sb limped. Flop call is obv standard, but I hate preflop.