Rainkhan and the 33 versus Alex Kravchenko

[speedgun]

In this long thread, Arnold Snyder believes a turbo tournament should be played differently but Mason Malmuth hates the idea.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&vc=1

[suzzer99]

There is no question in my mind a regular $109 sng should be played differently than a $60 turbo (similar toughness). But it's probably not by as much as people think.

[curtains]

offhand seems pretty clearcut to me, but not doing any huge research.

[sheetsworld]

I really think Alex's shoving range here is significantly tighter than people are estimating. I believe that KJs is the very bottom of the range, for a number of reasons. The big chip stack of Yank and his propensity to make big calls is one factor. The huge jump in real money which a player can achieve by calling and busting Alex, a braclet winner and good player, is another. Alex is no [censored] and he must be fearful of this extra incentive to call him, which severely tightens his range in my opinion. I would be shocked ofr him to turn over anything less than what he did.

I really have him on 22+,A9s+,kq+,kjs+ MAYBE...which, if I am right, would make the 33 shove pretty miserable approaching 40% equity I think.

Those utg shoves, even 6 handed, are usually stronger than people think .


sheets

[speedgun]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no question in my mind a regular $109 sng should be played differently than a $60 turbo (similar toughness). But it's probably not by as much as people think.

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I agree a turbo tourney will be played differently from a normal speed table, for example less number of hands will be played in the Green Zone, but the real question is will you play an exactly same hand, in the exactly same blind level and exactly same relative chip counts, differently because it is a part of a faster structured tournament.

[suzzer99]

Yes. In a regular if the table is tight I may get involved in more pots because I know I can't just fold to the bubble then start shoving. I may have to steal some blinds, which rarely is a requirement in a turbo. So maybe I raise J9s from the CO where I would normally fold in a turbo. Or maybe I call a button raise with KJo from the BB because I know other players are thinking similar.

Conversely if a table is crazy I may not want to shove or steal in a borderline spot, since I can afford to be more patient and wait for someone to throw me their chips.

These aren't giant differences, just borderline hands that could go a different way between the two formats.

[speedgun]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes. In a regular if the table is tight I may get involved in more pots because I know I can't just fold to the bubble then start shoving. I may have to steal some blinds, which rarely is a requirement in a turbo. So maybe I raise J9s from the CO where I would normally fold in a turbo. Or maybe I call a button raise with KJo from the BB because I know other players are thinking similar.

Conversely if a table is crazy I may not want to shove or steal in a borderline spot, since I can afford to be more patient and wait for someone to throw me their chips.

These aren't giant differences, just borderline hands that could go a different way between the two formats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, for the argument's sake, in a slower tourney you will have a lot more chances to get a hand better than J9s before the bubble.

Anyway, it is interesting that Snyder is actually recommending exactly opposite as his strategy, i.e. play more hands in the turbo and accumulate chips earlier. Of course his arugment is more applicable to an MTT.

[GotQuads]

[ QUOTE ]
I really think Alex's shoving range here is significantly tighter than people are estimating. I believe that KJs is the very bottom of the range, for a number of reasons. The big chip stack of Yank and his propensity to make big calls is one factor. The huge jump in real money which a player can achieve by calling and busting Alex, a braclet winner and good player, is another. Alex is no [censored] and he must be fearful of this extra incentive to call him, which severely tightens his range in my opinion. I would be shocked ofr him to turn over anything less than what he did.

I really have him on 22+,A9s+,kq+,kjs+ MAYBE...which, if I am right, would make the 33 shove pretty miserable approaching 40% equity I think.

Those utg shoves, even 6 handed, are usually stronger than people think .


sheets

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I think you're right sheets, but part of the discussion is not just what Alex' range might be, but rather what Alex range SHOULD be. Players are likely going to give him credit for some kind of a hand due to his tight play. Pudge gave an approximation of his correct shoving range earlier.

[DrewDevil]

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If Rahme really had AQ, how did he stop the blood from spurting out of his eyes?

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He was ridiculously tight for most of the FT. He probably would have folded AK here too.

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Is it correct to fold AQ or AK there? Not berating his play, just curious to what you guys think.

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I definitely would have folded AQ there
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I'd probably fold AK here.

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lol

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Can you explain this? I am not trying to hold myself out as an authority on this situation. Is AK an obvious push here? Why or why not? What about AQ?

I genuinely want to hear what you and the other top players think. "lol" doesn't help much.

[GotQuads]

[ QUOTE ]

Can you explain this? I am not trying to hold myself out as an authority on this situation. Is AK an obvious push here? Why or why not? What about AQ?

I genuinely want to hear what you and the other top players think. "lol" doesn't help much.

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Read the whole thread. I think it's safe to say that AK,QQ+ are pushes at the very least. AQs and JJ are probably too.