*** Official St Louis Cardinals to the 2006 World Series Thread ***

[PTjvs]

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lol this thread is nuts. Paul Wilson career ERA+ = 88, high of 92 (not counting a handful of starts in '00). Paul Wilson is terrible.

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Wilson's last 2 full seasons

2003
8-10 4.64 ERA 1.44 WHIP
2004
11-6 4.36 ERA 1.39 WHIP


Both seasons in GAP, a hyper-offensive home park.


Those stats are fine as a #3 in the NL this year. For reference, among guys with 10 or more starts:

3rd best starter for StL by ERA =

Sidney Ponson 4-4 5.24 ERA 1.62 WHIP

by WHIP:

Mark Mulder 6-5 6.09 ERA 1.55 WHIP

Houston's 3rd best starter by ERA

Andy Pettitte 8-9 4.99 ERA 1.56 WHIP

By WHIP:

Fernando Nieve 3-3 4.50 ERA 1.27 WHIP


jvs

[TheRover]

all the pitchers you mentioned are terrible although Pettitte has been unlucky and I like Nieve's upside a bit.

[PTjvs]

That's exactly the point. How many teams this year have a 3rd starter who you love?

[MinRaise]

I don't get why Aceshigh continues to call Harang a "journeyman" and a "scrub". He's pitched in the majors for two teams, and he would be, at worst, the second best pitcher on the Astros this year. Neither of these points is even debatable, other than he may be the best for the Astros.

[PTjvs]

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I don't get why Aceshigh continues to call Harang a "journeyman" and a "scrub". He's pitched in the majors for two teams, and he would be, at worst, the second best pitcher on the Astros this year. Neither of these points are even debatable, other than he may be the best for the Astros.

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You are exagerating a bit. He's not Oswalt, and I'm not sure how well an aging Clemens will hold up, but he's probably no Clemens either. He is a full 1.5 ERA better than anyone else Houston has though, and one of the top 15 SPs in the NL this year.

What I don't get is why people are on Bronson's jock so hard & just dismiss Harang.

[Your Mom]

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I don't get why Aceshigh continues to call Harang a "journeyman" and a "scrub". He's pitched in the majors for two teams, and he would be, at worst, the second best pitcher on the Astros this year. Neither of these points are even debatable, other than he may be the best for the Astros.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are exagerating a bit. He's not Oswalt, and I'm not sure how well an aging Clemens will hold up, but he's probably no Clemens either. He is a full 1.5 ERA better than anyone else Houston has though, and one of the top 15 SPs in the NL this year.

What I don't get is why people are on Bronson's jock so hard & just dismiss Harang.

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the media

[RunDownHouse]

I'm just waiting until AcesHigh gets outed as a diehard Cards fan that thinks up the most ridiculous, asinine positions to adopt. He's a brilliant sleeper... right?

[Quadstriker]

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The Astros rotation IS 8 GAMES OUT AND FALLING.


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FYP.

[Schwartzy61]

From Keith Law's article about NL teams' needs:

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St. Louis Cardinals

Starters needed: Three, and that's assuming Anthony Reyes keeps up his solid early work.

The Cardinals are a mess. It's hard to see this team within sniffing distance of .500 if it played in the AL East or Central divisions. The entire offense is wrapped up in three players (Albert Pujols, Scott Rolen and Jim Edmonds), and the team is locked into suffocating contracts with nonproductive hitters in right field and at shortstop. Manager Tony La Russa still regularly benches his one good second baseman, Hector Luna, further handicapping the team's offense. Left field is the easiest upgrade here, in part because the players St. Louis has run out there -- mainly So Taguchi and John Rodriguez -- are so bad.

The rotation is in worse shape than the offense, which can at least still score runs due to the three monsters in the heart of the lineup. Chris Carpenter is having another All-Star caliber season, and Reyes is off to a good start. Jason Marquis has the next-lowest ERA among starters at 5.55, exactly a full run worse than the league's ERA of 4.55. Mark Mulder could come back from his shoulder problem, but is that even a good thing? Adam Wainwright could be the Cardinals' Aaron Heilman, filling a role but not filling the need for a No. 2 or No. 3 starter.

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And the Cardinals offense is wrapped up in Pujols/Rolen/Edmonds? Last time I checked Edmonds was having a subpar season and the Cardinals 3rd most valuable position player was Eckstein, which leads to...

What's with the quip about "nonproductive hitters at shortstop and right field."

Eckstein is .312 BA/ .371 OBP which seems pretty good for a guy who's only job is to get on base in front of Pujols and Rolen. Last year he was .294/.363 in his first year in St. Louis.

Encarnacion is pretty [censored], no argument there.

And the mention of LF being easiest to upgrade because Taguchi and Rodriguez are "so bad"???

John Rodriguez (and I understand in limited time but still) .308/.366/.448 this year and .301/.374/.442 for his "career" (292 AB). Not exactly "so bad" anyone can improve upon those numbers, just unproven for an extended period of time.

Taguchi is pretty bad, but for the most part is just an OF with no punch but can certainly get on base decently. (.286/.352/.366 this year and .288/.335/.408 for his career).

And the one guy they've been linked to, Craig Wilson is .270/.348/.485 which will certainly be an upgrade but to me LaRussa could give Rodriguez more playing time and probably have someone nearly as effective without having to give up a prospect...

Also, concerning Mulder. He makes no mention that perhaps his shoulder problems could've contributed to his poor first half performance, he only makes a quip about him coming back maybe not being a good thing. I know he has limited space, but he had enough space to insert several jokes...

Law says a lot of smart things and most of the stuff in this article is correct. But seems to get stuck on certain assumptions and either doesn't check the data or if he does check and the data doesn't back him up he ignores it. If the data does back him up he has no problem mentioning it.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
St. Louis Cardinals

Starters needed: Three, and that's assuming Anthony Reyes keeps up his solid early work.

The Cardinals are a mess. It's hard to see this team within sniffing distance of .500 if it played in the AL East or Central divisions. The entire offense is wrapped up in three players (Albert Pujols, Scott Rolen and Jim Edmonds), and the team is locked into suffocating contracts with nonproductive hitters in right field and at shortstop. Manager Tony La Russa still regularly benches his one good second baseman, Hector Luna, further handicapping the team's offense. Left field is the easiest upgrade here, in part because the players St. Louis has run out there -- mainly So Taguchi and John Rodriguez -- are so bad.

The rotation is in worse shape than the offense, which can at least still score runs due to the three monsters in the heart of the lineup. Chris Carpenter is having another All-Star caliber season, and Reyes is off to a good start. Jason Marquis has the next-lowest ERA among starters at 5.55, exactly a full run worse than the league's ERA of 4.55. Mark Mulder could come back from his shoulder problem, but is that even a good thing? Adam Wainwright could be the Cardinals' Aaron Heilman, filling a role but not filling the need for a No. 2 or No. 3 starter.


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What team is he talking about? Eckstein is non-productive? His remaining 1 year at $4m (IIRC) is suffocating? I agree Encarnacion sucks, but he's not having an awful year (he's turned it around nicely after what was a hideous start), and his remaining 2 years at 5m per isn't exactly suffocating either. In fact, I can't think of a single problematic contract on the team other than Izzy.

Is the pitching staff lame? Yes, but it's still the NL and it's far from abysmal. The fact is they *aren't* in the AL and are in great shape to have a shot at the world series come October.