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Old 10-17-2007, 04:53 PM
roggles roggles is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 545
Default Linecheck on these Razz hands

So, after not playing Razz for a long time I decide to sit down and lose another 20 bets. Argh, I don't know if I'm just unlucky or if I play fundamentally bad. I wish I could tell FTP to not let me play Razz. Here are some key hands of the game.

Hand 1: Opponent here is tight. I am fairly sure he has me beat on every street. Should I still bet like I do or hope he might let me get a freecard?

Razz ($2/$4), Ante $0,40, Bring-In $0,50 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.20 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (3.45 SB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (2.73 BB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (4.73 BB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

River - (6.73 BB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___checks

Total pot: (6.73 BB - $26,90)

Hand 2: This player is really bad, and could easily have called with a Q down or something. Is everything ok in light of this?

Razz ($2/$4), Ante $0,40, Bring-In $0,50 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.20 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds

4th Street - (3.45 SB)

Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (2.73 BB)

Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

6th Street - (4.73 BB)

Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

River - (6.73 BB)

Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets

Total pot: (8.73 BB - $34,90)

Hand 3: How does he not fold fifth? Reading this hand makes me angry. Should I just accept he "outplayed" me and make a note on him that he is an idiot?

Razz ($2/$4), Ante $0,40, Bring-In $0,50 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.40 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Hero: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (3.65 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (2.83 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

6th Street - (4.83 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___folds

Total pot: (4.83 BB - $19,30)

Hand 4

Razz ($2/$4), Ante $0,40, Bring-In $0,50 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.40 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds

4th Street - (3.65 SB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (2.83 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

6th Street - (4.83 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

River - (6.83 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___bets

Total pot: (8.83 BB - $35,30)
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  #2  
Old 10-17-2007, 05:29 PM
RustyBrooks RustyBrooks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,380
Default Re: Linecheck on these Razz hands

Hand 1: No one is going to fold a made 87 to your board, so when he calls 5th I think I'm done betting unless I improve or I have a very good reason to believe he called 5th with no 87. Really, though, he is never going to raise you here either, and he'll probably bet if you check. So until the river it's probably about the same except he might fold 5th if he's paired. Betting the river is bad, I think I'd check-fold for sure. On 6th I might check-call, you have 11 live outs (3, 4, 5). On the plus side he probably won't bet the river unless he improves to a 76.

Hand 2: Your outs are pretty dead. I don't like 5th but if he's very bad, I'd consider it. 6th is really pretty bad... you're drawing to *just barely* beat his current hand, and much of the time he'll outdraw you. On 5th and 6th your relative position to him stays the same, however, you have fewer cards to come (just one) so your outlook is much worse. I'd want to improve on 6th to continue.

Hand 3: Many many people will not fold if they can improve to beat your current hand on the next street. Particularly if they're willing to limp J up there and then call a completion. I don't bluff these people. And 5th was a bluff - quite likely he has a better 3 card hand than you do.

Hand 4: This is kind of standard. I wish I could fold the river but usually I can't.
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  #3  
Old 10-17-2007, 07:33 PM
T. Chance T. Chance is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14
Default Re: Linecheck on these Razz hands

I'm quite puzzled with a few things on third and fourth street too.
Hand 1 : The only chance you can get him to fold is if he paired the 6 (and you also have a 6). Very likely he has a better hand and won't fold it. Maybe you bet to set up a future bluff on 5th if you both brick, but I'm not sure I like the bet anyway.

Hand 2 : I'm not sure I complete on third street with your hand considering there's a 5 and a 7 after you. On fourth, it's pretty much the same than in hand one except the T is much less likely to have paired him than the 6, so I dislike your bet even more.

Hand 3 : Well I may be really wrong here but I don't know if it's correct to call on fourth, even against a J. I guess you have enough pot equity, but actually, to stick around you need to hit fifth and hope he bricks, and even then, you're not happy with it. So I think giving it up on fourth may be better.
Am I wrong ?
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