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| View Poll Results: Notre Dame 8-1 | |||
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0 | 0% |
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1 | 2.78% |
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1 | 2.78% |
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2 | 5.56% |
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11 | 30.56% |
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5 | 13.89% |
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13 | 36.11% |
| Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#531
10-24-2007, 12:49 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
Jan,
I love the fact that you're so indignant about what happened. I feel exactly the same way. I've also voiced my opinion whereever I could. My responses to various blogs and my posts on a number of forums are proof that I put my money where my mouth is. The big problem with your thinking is... most players just don't give a damn. Look at AP's site right now, they aren't suffering any major loss of players. Players are chatting about the scandal while they play there. Affiliates continue to promote AP as well. I've made a number of comments on this subject here and elsewhere. It disgusts me but it is reality. All I can honestly suggest to you and others who are voicing your opinions so loudly here is to go forward and make your voices heard in the blogs and forums where this is being ignored. There is power in numbers, the little guy can win but only if we present a united front. I'd love to think that we have the power to bring AP to their knees but the reality may be very different. 
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#532
10-24-2007, 12:53 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] To all you naysayers coming out of the woodwork.... There is absolutely no downside to Nat and/or others visiting AP's offices. Short of them locking Nat into a room and brainwashing him so he comes back spewing "Absolute is innocent", where's the harm in this visit? If Nat can see first hand how many employees they have, how secure the operation is, what their security staff have to say, etc... where's the harm? As far as taking Absolute down, it ain't gonna happen. The best we can hope for is that they take what happened seriously enough to fix the holes in their system, pay back the victims and make every effort to be as transparent as possible in the future. Absolute will suffer, their cash flow will take a big hit from this. Expecting any more is naive and unrealistic. I agree that AP should go down in flames. I agree that this scam probably reaches to the very top of AP's foodchain. But, proving this and bringing them to justice will likely never happen. History has shown that big companies rarely die in the face of scandal. Companies like Absolute who operate under veils of secrecy and dummy corporations in an unregulated industry like ours are very difficult to get to. If they're willing to allow Nat into their private offices, I say go for it! [/ QUOTE ] Not sure which avenue is best to take since adanthar et all haven't shared all the inside info yet, but if putting Absolute out of business would be best for poker, then go for it - don't sit there and say "history shows blah blah, its too difficult, yada yada" That's weaksauce man. It most certainly can be done. It isn't like Absolute has a monopoly on poker or anything. [/ QUOTE ] Weaksauce? LOL! How much have you done to "put Absolute out of business"?
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#533
10-24-2007, 12:55 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
I think we already KNOW what was happening at AP. I just don't think we're going to find out anything new. [/ QUOTE ] Come on. You can't be serious? This logic is lazy, and borderline idiotic. We have nothing remotely close to complete knowledge of the situation. We don't know the depth of the conspiracy, the scope of who was involved, and that gap in knowledge is what leads to rampant speculation. If he goes, we'll know more. If he doesn't go, we'll know less. There's really not much more to it than that.
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#534
10-24-2007, 12:59 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
If he goes, we'll know more. If he doesn't go, we'll know less. There's really not much more to it than that. [/ QUOTE ] Wrong. Naive.
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#535
10-24-2007, 01:00 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
Don't you guys realize that nothing good can come from a visit to AP by Nat? Undoubtedly, Nat will be required to sign a confidentiality agreement before he is given access to any sensitive information/data. He will be legally constrained in the way he can report back to this forum. That's probably part of AP's plan. [/ QUOTE ] Nat would have to scrutinize any confidentiality agreement, which he should probably look over and sign before he leaves. However, good can always come from talking with the bad guys. When police talk to suspects, most of the time they don't get a confession. However, they often get important information anyway. Things the 2+2 "auditors" see down there could easily give them ideas for new avenues to pursue. We can also pin AP to a story that we can go out and disprove to build the case against them. There is a ton of value to going down there even if AP tries to sugarcoat everything and does not give much access.
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#536
10-24-2007, 01:02 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] My ultimate goal is not to sink the company. I want them to pay for their mistakes. I also want them to be a good company going forward. Am I off base here? [/ QUOTE ] I'm not privy to the info you have but I don't have this kind of forgiveness. I've heard too many stories to every trust these guys again. [/ QUOTE ] What I don't get is why anyone would WANT to trust them again? This just seems a bit naive to me. Are people sitting behind their computers actually hoping against hope there is a plausible explanation for how and why they were cheated and ripped off? "Please, Absolute Poker, please tell me you haven't been cheating me all this time when I had such trust in your company!" COME ON PEOPLE! We WERE naive! My husband has been telling me for months these people are sitting down there in Costa Rica or where ever the hell they are seeing our hole cards cheating in these tournaments and winning the big prizes. I told him he was nuts! Why? Because I told him they wouldn't risk the ruin of their company because eventually someone would get wind of it and it would be ALL OVER the 2+2 forums. They would never get away with it. That would be the end of the company. He just told me I was very naive. Well, he was right and I was naive, but 2+2 DID get wind of it and it is all over the forums now, and this is the best we can do!? The evidence everyone has already gotten isn't enough? We want to HELP the cheaters and thieves to go forward and become a better company? Let's kiss and make up? WTF? If you found your girlfriend in bed with another guy would you be fishing around for explanations? Would you be naive enough to hope against hope there was some plausible explanation? Would you want to help her become a better girlfriend in the future? Does everyone so not want to believe that they were naive enough to be cheated and stolen from by a company they trusted, that getting money returned and helping the company become a better company is more important than accepting the fact that WE'VE ALL BEEN HAD by Absolute Poker and we should be helping to bring the company down!!! THIS SUCKS! [/ QUOTE ] Good points, Jan. Here's a counter-argument: - We, here on this forum, won't decide whether Absolute survives or not. The marketplace will, and although I really like [the community made up of the posters to] 2+2, I have no illusions that we have some sort of huge market power. We can change some people's minds, and that's it. - If there's one thing this thread has demonstrated, people's ethical positions vary widely. Some will never play at Absolute again. Some are still playing there. Many, I think, are on the fence, waiting to see what happens. - It is reasonable to try to judge what kind of company Absolute will be moving forward, and to communicate that information widely. It is then up to *each individual player* to make an ethical decision about whether to play there. Those who have already decided "NO!" may see such an effort as an ethical violation, and try to prevent it, because they see the chance that such a visit may help a site that they think should be burned down. Fine, but please respect the fact that others may not agree with your position. - If you believe Absolute is going to survive, and they convince you that they are serious about cleaning up their act, a forgiving person might be willing to give them some advice on how to proceed. There are gray areas here obviously, but the point I keep coming back to it that a site visit is a chance to get information, and I happen to believe more information is usually better. I understand and respect the *burn them down because they suck" argument. But the point has been made many times already. So, getting back on topic... IF Nat and/or others go on a site visit, what questions should they ask?
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#537
10-24-2007, 01:05 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
By going, Nat will be able to assess the size of the operation, the security protocol they have in place and interview the staff. He should be able to draw some conclusions as to the competence of these staff members.
His technical knowledge should give him a feel for the quality of their systems, etc... No downside other than causing all this [censored] arguing over the merits of him going!
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#539
10-24-2007, 01:08 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I think we already KNOW what was happening at AP. I just don't think we're going to find out anything new. [/ QUOTE ] Come on. You can't be serious? This logic is lazy, and borderline idiotic. We have nothing remotely close to complete knowledge of the situation. We don't know the depth of the conspiracy, the scope of who was involved, and that gap in knowledge is what leads to rampant speculation. If he goes, we'll know more. If he doesn't go, we'll know less. There's really not much more to it than that. [/ QUOTE ] How much more do you need to know? And what are you going to do with that information?
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#540
10-24-2007, 01:15 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] To all you naysayers coming out of the woodwork.... There is absolutely no downside to Nat and/or others visiting AP's offices. Short of them locking Nat into a room and brainwashing him so he comes back spewing "Absolute is innocent", where's the harm in this visit? If Nat can see first hand how many employees they have, how secure the operation is, what their security staff have to say, etc... where's the harm? As far as taking Absolute down, it ain't gonna happen. The best we can hope for is that they take what happened seriously enough to fix the holes in their system, pay back the victims and make every effort to be as transparent as possible in the future. Absolute will suffer, their cash flow will take a big hit from this. Expecting any more is naive and unrealistic. I agree that AP should go down in flames. I agree that this scam probably reaches to the very top of AP's foodchain. But, proving this and bringing them to justice will likely never happen. History has shown that big companies rarely die in the face of scandal. Companies like Absolute who operate under veils of secrecy and dummy corporations in an unregulated industry like ours are very difficult to get to. If they're willing to allow Nat into their private offices, I say go for it! [/ QUOTE ] Not sure which avenue is best to take since adanthar et all haven't shared all the inside info yet, but if putting Absolute out of business would be best for poker, then go for it - don't sit there and say "history shows blah blah, its too difficult, yada yada" That's weaksauce man. It most certainly can be done. It isn't like Absolute has a monopoly on poker or anything. [/ QUOTE ] Weaksauce? LOL! How much have you done to "put Absolute out of business"? [/ QUOTE ] I don't conduct business with them. If everyone else followed suit, they'd be out of business. Is this concept too hard for you to grasp?
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