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  #11  
Old 11-27-2007, 01:14 PM
Moonshine Moonshine is offline
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Default Re: 10-20 vs argoe

[ QUOTE ]
Why can't this be a bluff? we check behind on turn which is either air that took a stab on the flop, or a mediocre hand that doesn't want to face a raise on the turn

therefore he knows the river bet is a slim value bet, you checked the turn to snap call any river bluff, so a river cr is his best move

[/ QUOTE ]

so you're saying red OOP floated with air after that flop raise with the intention of C/Ring river AI...
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  #12  
Old 11-27-2007, 01:55 PM
TheWorstPlayer TheWorstPlayer is offline
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Default Re: 10-20 vs argoe

i wouldnt raise the flop. but if you do against him, it should be to try to check it down. he let you, i'd do it. now i'd fold once you get c/r'ed.
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  #13  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:03 PM
Ship Ship McGipp Ship Ship McGipp is offline
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Default Re: 10-20 vs argoe

[ QUOTE ]
i wouldnt raise the flop. but if you do against him, it should be to try to check it down. he let you, i'd do it. now i'd fold once you get c/r'ed.

[/ QUOTE ]

the flop raise tilts me, but nto as much as the river bet
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  #14  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:06 PM
TheWorstPlayer TheWorstPlayer is offline
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Default Re: 10-20 vs argoe

did you just agree with me? you MUST have been tilted by this hand...
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  #15  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:10 PM
king_of_drafts king_of_drafts is offline
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Default Re: 10-20 vs argoe

fold, this is 57 or a set like always
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  #16  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:18 PM
DLizzle DLizzle is offline
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Default Re: 10-20 vs argoe

hard not to agree with the flop bet being retardo. It just makes the hand play really weird, i dunno. if i did decide that this was the kind of player I would like to raise the flop against, I would be making it a bit bigger with the intention of snap calling a shove, but this is probably not the player to do that kind of thing against.

preflop is fine, but I would like to bet the turn and check the river. As played I would just check the river, from what i have heard he is not very spewy and won't be c/c this river with a lot of worse hands, your line looks pretty much like exactly what you have.
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  #17  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:32 PM
NMcNasty NMcNasty is offline
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Default Re: 10-20 vs argoe

I really hate a 3 bet with just KQ against him.

Flop raise is pretty bad, its just giving him an opportunity to play perfectly against you. You can only get away with raising for value on a dry board like this if you've been bluffing a lot on the same boards. Even then ur getting urself into tricky spots, what if he min-raises or calls and leads turn?

As played, I like your turn check, after he calls his hand range is better than your KQ on average. Betting for value on this turn is terrible imo. With a dry board like this he can throw you rope with any hand that beats you.

After a river check I don't hate a slim value bet but its still close. Usually if he's putting you on AQ or worse you're going to see him leading here with AQ or better. Still, when he comes over the top you're beat. For calling to be ok you need a few of things to happen:
1. He thinks ur raising KQ on the flop and worse
2. He thinks you're betting KQ and worse on the river
3. He thinks you're folding KQ and worse on the river

Its just much more likely he's check/deciding with 88-QJ, and with a hand worse than that its usually a min-reraise or fold situation on the flop.
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  #18  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:38 PM
Ship Ship McGipp Ship Ship McGipp is offline
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Default Re: 10-20 vs argoe

[ QUOTE ]
Usually if he's putting you on AQ or worse you're going to see him leading here with AQ or better.

[/ QUOTE ]

what? noooo. leading this river is prett ymuch wrong for any hand that red can have. anything that is calling a river bet is betting when checked to, which makes reds hand eas y to play. since you're never checking the turn with anything that beats AQ, say, and the 8 rarely makes your hand better, and you almost never bet half pot with anything that can call a CR, he should CRAI with 99 or TT or wahtever and turn it into a bluff, since KQ is like the strongest hand in your range.

so like, you let him play this hand pretty much perfectly, and he should CRAI with 100% of his range (the except perhaps is the other KQ, and maybe QJ), but you should still fold becuase of how weird you played the rest of the hand, and the fact that you can't know how he'll react to the w ay you played it (and if you did, you didn't include it in op)
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  #19  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:54 PM
TheWorstPlayer TheWorstPlayer is offline
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Default Re: 10-20 vs argoe

agree with your post in general, but "anything that is calling a river bet is betting when checked to". for instance, KQ should check but potentially call a bet (I'd fold, though, against red).
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  #20  
Old 11-27-2007, 03:08 PM
Ansky Ansky is offline
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Default Re: 10-20 vs argoe

fold... Red has made a few moves vs me cause he knows i think hes a nit, but i really doubt he is doin anything crazy in this spot.
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