Play though a hand with me here....

[Assani Fisher]

I'll be posting this hand in steps. Once discussion about a particular decision has died down I'll say what I did next and what else happpened.

$4000 buy in MTT, about 300 entrants, 40 spots pay. Start with 10,000 chips.

Play has been going on for about 2 hours. Blinds are now 100/200. I have been at the same table the entire time, but quite a few people have busted and new people have been shuffled in. I have 17,000 in chips, which is slightly above average in the tourney but is slightly below average at the table.

I'm in EP with 4-5 of diamonds.

UTG is a tricky player who limp with monsters and many times will slowplay too much and get himself in trouble. He will also occassionally make moves that are simply weird and pretty unexplainable. He looks at his cards, takes a longer time than usual to act, and min. raises to 400. I have never seen him min. raise or raise from EP.

I'm next to act.

I do have reads on several of the players behind me...Generally speaking, several of them are very loose with their calls. I will give more details on specific players as they become pertinent to the hand.


Even though I'm out of position, I decide that the stacks are so deep and theres a decent chance that he has a monster that maybe I could take his whole stack here. I'll take a gamble and call. Thoughts on this? Too loose? I'll stop here for now...

[rockin]

Too loose for me, this would mean that almost every hand you could speculate based on the same principle. For others, i'm sure this is fine.

[registrar]

The principal is fine but I don't like the cards enough to risk it in this case. 56s maybe, 67s more likely but I've found myself at the wrong end of a read and the wrong end of a straight too many times with 45.

[CybrPunk]

[ QUOTE ]

UTG is a tricky player who limp with monsters and many times will slowplay too much and get himself in trouble.

Generally speaking, several of them are very loose with their calls.


I decide that the stacks are so deep and theres a decent chance that he has a monster that maybe I could take his whole stack here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on this information, which is just about everything you detailed about reads on these players up until now, I think you can make a call in this spot. I don't necessarily love the idea of playing a hand like 54s out of position, but if you know that you're either nailing the flop hard or jumping ship then it isn't so bad.

I especially like this if your reads on the remaining players would indicate that there will almost definitely be no reraising behind you. This is a very important thing to me here because a hand like this would certainly be folded to a reraise behind you.

The problem here is that your post is starting out as a very read dependent situation. Playing this hand in a vacuum I would fold instantly but playing live in a structure like this you really need to be able to rely on your reads to make choices like this easier. The composition of your table is integral to how this hand plays out and I would think that providing more of your information on player reads, which you say you will detail later as the information becomes pertinent, would be very helpful here. Do you make this call at a table where you've just been moved and are now playing your first hand there? Probably not. There's a reason you're making this call and filling the rest of us in on why you feel this way helps our decision making process.

[vieira10]

Just a little too loose for me, but if your comfortable playing this hand then go ahead and call. I dont think calling preflop is a mistake at all

[uclabruinz]

I fold due to risk of reraise from behind.

[MaddHatter]

I think it's necessary to know more about the players behind you then the one before you, but in this scenario, I'm getting out of the way b/c if there is a raise behind me and he re-raises, then I'm getting sandwhiched and I'm just throwing money away. If I think that the pot will either get folded or called around, then I understand the mindset. I think the cards, lack of reads and position make this an easy fold.

[Assani Fisher]

I apologize for not giving full info...

Most of the players here are very good players. Several of them are indeed capable of raising behind me. However-and this is a key point imo- they are very peceptive players, and I think that most of them(if not all of them) have picked up on the fact that UTG is a tricky player, as he has slowplayed AA twice in the tourney, once very recently. Therefore, such a small raise has to cause some concern, and I doubt they would re raise without a monster.

This was key in my decision. I do totally agree that it is a bit loose here, and thats why I'm posting this....just trying to get more opinions and views- I certainly could be making a mistake here.

[MaddHatter]

By slowplaying AA, you mean he limped?

You said he has not min-raised at all?

If these players are good, they understand the UTG raise shows strength and due to the gap effect, your call means more strength. You're only going to get reraised by another monster and called by mid-high pairs and AK/AQs.

I understand the call and can say that I've done it myself a couple of times with this goal in mind.

[Nez477]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold due to risk of reraise from behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the key. I mean, sure if we can see a multi-way pot with this hand, let's do it, especially if UTG will get into trouble and possibly hand his stack over with a monster.

However there is no guarantee that we won't have to put in much more of our stack to see a flop. What happens if other opponents reraise to 1000? The position in the hand could put us in a much dicier spot.

But... it feels as if this hand is going to be interesting so I'm glad you called. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Brad