YANS (Yet another SAGE question) NLTRN

[PrimordialAA]

COMPLETELY villian dependent IMO, do they limp often? all the time? first time they limp yet you know they should be playing SAGE? all on them

(but yes, i'm much more inclined to shove as well, but so many other things to consider =])

[cwar]

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I don't think there is every a reason to justify tightening up sb shoves


[/ QUOTE ]
This is wrong, what if sb called ATC when you pushed? Then SAGE is clearly the wrong pushing range to use when maximizing your EV.

[cwar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think there is every a reason to justify tightening up sb shoves

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That I absolutely agree with. As I mentioned, I don't have any problem shoving wide, *especially* against somebody who appears to be playing too tight.

I just seem to run into all sorts of people who fold their button a lot when they're shortstacked, especially if they see me pushing my chips around when I'm first to act.

Against that sort of player I tend to fold a fair number of hands that SAGE would tell me to call with, especially weaker queens, jacks, and tens, and sometimes even weaker kings, like K2o or K3o.

I guess what I'm really wondering is if I'm making a huge mistake by doing that, in situations where it really seems like they are (incorrectly) waiting for a decent hand to put their chips on.

When I'm the one on the shortstack, I don't make those same adjustments, because I know I need to double up, but I just hate to double somebody up and put them right back in the game when I've got them down to almost nothing, in situations where I have enough of a lead that I feel I can afford to be a little bit more patient.

Huge leak or sensible play?

[/ QUOTE ]
The way your talking it sounds like your trying to justify timid play, I think its very likely you are underestimating your villains pushing ranges I would stick to a slightly tighter SAGE calling range until given a good reason not to, and this does not mean a feeling, cold hard evidence only. Very often people will give no indication that they can push very wide at 6bb and will (thus exploiting you if you play too tight) so until you *know* or strongly suspect otherwise dont give them too much credit when they push.

[TNixon]

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The way your talking it sounds like your trying to justify timid play

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Well, you're certainly at least a little bit right here. I've definitely been too timid in the past when the stacks are 7BB or less.

Like I said, I've never had a problem pushing wide when the stacks are short, but calling wide is an adjustment that I'm still trying to make very late in the game, because I've *definitely* been calling too tight in the past, even wanting to wait for a strong queen (QT) or better.

But as I'm trying to make this adjustment, I find myself running into a fair number of people who will fold button after button after button, and when they finally do push, I can't help but think that I'm way behind their range with something like J6.

I'm only thinking this against opponents that obviously fold *way* too much on their button, though, so the evidence is there. (either that or they're just on a nasty coldstreak)

[Sheetah]

No one mentioned pot odds?
As I understand SAGE revolves around pot odds as well as range vs range. At some point you must accept calling with worse hand because of the odds, amiright?

[ChicagoRy]

BTW wtf does "YANS" stand for? YASQ is what you wrote out in parenthesis.

[cwar]

YASQ (WhY Ask Stupid Questions)

JK [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[TNixon]

haha. yeah, nice catch.

It really stands for Yet ANother Sage question

[dippy111]

Sorry to bring back this thread, but I figured this was better than starting a new one. Does anyone know exactly how they derived the rankings for each hand? I ask this because the ranking that I came up with using pokerstove doesn't match up with sage.