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#11
05-29-2007, 04:52 PM
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Re: Hillary: Replace \"on your own\" society with \"shared responsibility
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think most 2+2 ers know the real agenda of the left is to move as far toward socialism as possible, without actually saying it outloud. [/ QUOTE ] Strange as this may seem to someone as wise and all-knowing as yourself, some people might view a move toward socialism positively. [/ QUOTE ] why would anyone view a move toward socialism positively? [/ QUOTE ] b/c they are unaware of or unwilling to accept the reality of what has historically happened to socialist countries/societies. 
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#12
05-29-2007, 04:53 PM
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Re: Hillary: Replace \"on your own\" society with \"shared responsibility
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think most 2+2 ers know the real agenda of the left is to move as far toward socialism as possible, without actually saying it outloud. [/ QUOTE ] Strange as this may seem to someone as wise and all-knowing as yourself, some people might view a move toward socialism positively. [/ QUOTE ] why would anyone view a move toward socialism positively? [/ QUOTE ] Why do you prefer the Illini to the rest of the Big Ten? [/ QUOTE ] locality and personal connections
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#13
05-29-2007, 04:53 PM
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Re: Hillary: Replace \"on your own\" society with \"shared responsibility
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think most 2+2 ers know the real agenda of the left is to move as far toward socialism as possible, without actually saying it outloud. [/ QUOTE ] Strange as this may seem to someone as wise and all-knowing as yourself, some people might view a move toward socialism positively. [/ QUOTE ] why would anyone view a move toward socialism positively? [/ QUOTE ] b/c they are unaware of or unwilling to accept the reality of what has historically happened to socialist countries/societies. [/ QUOTE ] Which ones would those be? I know of some totalitarian regimes which hid behind a veil of socialism.
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#14
05-29-2007, 04:53 PM
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Re: Hillary: Replace \"on your own\" society with \"shared responsibility
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think most 2+2 ers know the real agenda of the left is to move as far toward socialism as possible, without actually saying it outloud. [/ QUOTE ] Strange as this may seem to someone as wise and all-knowing as yourself, some people might view a move toward socialism positively. [/ QUOTE ] why would anyone view a move toward socialism positively? [/ QUOTE ] Because 40 million Americans don't have health insurance and if we had a Canadian or European style system they would. Frankly, Hillary is dead on. This speech bumped her up a notch in my book. And if you guys didn't read the quote, Hillary did say it out loud.
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#15
05-29-2007, 05:00 PM
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Re: Hillary: Replace \"on your own\" society with \"shared responsibility
[ QUOTE ]
Everyone knows what all this means, tax increases on upper income folk and large corporations and huge government social programs. [/ QUOTE ] of course corp. don't really pay taxes in the same way that a property owner who rents it out doesn't really pay any property taxes. bottom line more taxes for everybody, maybe more so for the working poor. As for health care, the only real solution is a two tier health program, basic services for free with emphasis on prevention, and private insurance for anybody who wants it. And by basic services I mean if you get cancer then no treatment if it's above x dollars. Not as bad as it seems though most super expensive treatments don't prolong life very long anyway.
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#16
05-29-2007, 05:02 PM
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Re: Hillary: Replace \"on your own\" society with \"shared responsibility
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think most 2+2 ers know the real agenda of the left is to move as far toward socialism as possible, without actually saying it outloud. [/ QUOTE ] Strange as this may seem to someone as wise and all-knowing as yourself, some people might view a move toward socialism positively. [/ QUOTE ] why would anyone view a move toward socialism positively? [/ QUOTE ] Because 40 million Americans don't have health insurance and if we had a Canadian or European style system they would. Frankly, Hillary is dead on. This speech bumped her up a notch in my book. And if you guys didn't read the quote, Hillary did say it out loud. [/ QUOTE ] I may be wrong (I dont think so) but when they come up with that 40 million number....they use everyone who spent one day or more without health insurance in a given year. So if you move from one job to another and dont pay the Cobra....you are tallied as being without HC for that year. This is a huge portion of the 40 million. (when in fact they really are not uninsured) I will try to find a link.... but I thought this may interest you, and up your spirits from the health care crisis doom and gloom you may feel, based on the numbers you have cited. Buck up Iron...it's really not as bad as you think.
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#17
05-29-2007, 05:06 PM
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Re: Hillary: Replace \"on your own\" society with \"shared responsibility
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I think most 2+2 ers know the real agenda of the left is to move as far toward socialism as possible, without actually saying it outloud. [/ QUOTE ] Strange as this may seem to someone as wise and all-knowing as yourself, some people might view a move toward socialism positively. [/ QUOTE ] Where did he say that people viewed a move towards socialism negatively?
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#18
05-29-2007, 05:10 PM
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Re: Hillary: Replace \"on your own\" society with \"shared responsibility
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Everyone knows what all this means, tax increases on upper income folk and large corporations and huge government social programs. [/ QUOTE ] of course corp. don't really pay taxes in the same way that a property owner who rents it out doesn't really pay any property taxes. bottom line more taxes for everybody, maybe more so for the working poor. As for health care, the only real solution is a two tier health program, basic services for free with emphasis on prevention, and private insurance for anybody who wants it. And by basic services I mean if you get cancer then no treatment if it's above x dollars. Not as bad as it seems though most super expensive treatments don't prolong life very long anyway. [/ QUOTE ] The best way to handle HC IMO is to offer "catostrophic" HC options, where young, healthy people can get coverage only for serious events. ie You get a cold...you pay for a doc visit out of pocket. You get in a car wreck (broken bones, surgery etc) you are covered for the "big" injuries or illnesses. Once people get older( have kids) ...they may want to change to a more pricy, but more suitable program for the current situation. I know when I was in my 20s, I hardly ever went to the doc, but my employer and myself paid premiums that were overkill for my situation. It was a huge waste of money, and I could have used it better for other things.
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#19
05-29-2007, 05:11 PM
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Re: Hillary: Replace \"on your own\" society with \"shared responsibility
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think most 2+2 ers know the real agenda of the left is to move as far toward socialism as possible, without actually saying it outloud. [/ QUOTE ] Strange as this may seem to someone as wise and all-knowing as yourself, some people might view a move toward socialism positively. [/ QUOTE ] why would anyone view a move toward socialism positively? [/ QUOTE ] Because 40 million Americans don't have health insurance and if we had a Canadian or European style system they would. Frankly, Hillary is dead on. This speech bumped her up a notch in my book. And if you guys didn't read the quote, Hillary did say it out loud. [/ QUOTE ] Exacltly, some people on this forum view a move closer to socialism as positive and some view it in a negative light. Thanks for making my point in my response to Dan above.
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#20
05-29-2007, 05:14 PM
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Re: Hillary: Replace \"on your own\" society with \"shared responsibility\"
[ QUOTE ]
Presidential hopeful Hillary Rodham Clinton outlined a broad economic vision Tuesday, saying it's time to replace an "on your own" society with one based on shared responsibility and prosperity. [/ QUOTE ] This shows an appalling lack of knowledge on human psychology, how the brain works, economics, and the precursors toward a prosperous and happy society. "On your own" and "self-responsibility" systems are ones that bring about greatness in individuals and groups. Read the research by Richard Epstein on adolescents, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi on personal achievement and happiness, or even the latest book on optimism Breaking Murphy's Law by Suzanne Segerstrom. The Hillary view of the world is a sickenly ignorant one.
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