If the US leaves Iraq and a complete bloodbath ensues...

[iron81]

[ QUOTE ]
The USA **NEVER** leaves Iraq.

Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. Even if we stop counter-insurgency operations, many will still want to have military bases there to keep an eye on Iran and Syria.

The thing is, this isn't necessarily true:

1. Congress might pass a very harsh bill requiring a complete withdrawl.

2. A government hostile to the US comes to power in Iraq.

And Johnny Cash, we've been trying to rebuild there for the last 4 years and we've just been falling further behind.

[LBK]

Iraq is so much worse off after Bush made the decision to take Saddam out. Worst political blunder in the last 200 years.

[morphball]

Just throwing this out there, maybe we should let the bloodbath ensue and then buy oil from the winner?

This will not happen. The United States has no interest in establishing a strong Iraqi government, who would sell oil for closer to what it is worth. The US prefers fractious competing tribes who are so intent on killing each other, that they sell the resources for a song.

They would like the same for Iran.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

[ QUOTE ]
The people doing the killing are responsible for their own actions.
Saying "Bush made me do it" is not a defense.

[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly.....
The bad blood between Sunni and Shia has been building up for a long time. With the power vacuum, there was going to be violence......

However, I think a lot of this violence could have been minimized by Bush. Bush botched post-war Iraq in multple ways:
1. Failing to declare martial law and shoot looters on sight. Thomas Friedman's writing on "Hamas Rules" does a good job of explaining in the Arab culture that they respect/admire extreme violence against those that spread anarchy and chaos.
2. Appointing that idiot General Garner to organize the post war govt.
3. Failing to give the Iraqis an interim constitution to speed up the process of forming a new govt. In addition, this interim constitution would have steered the Iraqis to a govt more of our liking...
4. Not securing the ammo depots all over the country.
5. Not instigating public work projects to put some money into people's pockets. Long term, most public work projects are a poor return on tax payer money but we needed to inject some optimism into Iraq and get the people work and some dollars in their pocket.
6. Disbanding the Bathist and the Iraqi army. This mistake is excusable but they should have taken a wait-and-see attitude before dismissing these people. General George Patton in post-war Germany kept Nazi officials in power to keep his provences running smoothly...
7. Not utilizing the Kurds to help secure the country especially the ammo depots.
8. Not bombing Syria and Iran for their support of insurgents. Destroy their air force while it is on the ground to send a message to these bastards...

The Shia dominated govt is screwing the Sunni out of their share of the oil revenues and the Sunni's are not happy about this. If we leave, they will be a civil war.

Iran will finance the Shia. Saudia Arabia (and others) will finace the Sunni. Who knows which side the Kurds will take... Al Qaeda has alienated much of the Sunni population so I think they will be a minor factor. Unless the Sunni can get the Kurds as allies, I think the greater numbers of Shia will tip the balance in favor of the Shia. The Sunni's could utilize foreign fighters but so far the Al Qaeda fighters have been more trouble than there are worth for the Sunni...

I can appreciate Bush's dream of an Arab democracy but I think it is time to settle for the consolation prize of a Kurdish strongman running that country. Afterall, was not Saladin a Kurd?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin

[samsonite2100]

[ QUOTE ]
However, I think a lot of this violence could have been minimized by Bush. Bush botched post-war Iraq in multple ways:
1. Failing to declare martial law and shoot looters on sight. Thomas Friedman's writing on "Hamas Rules" does a good job of explaining in the Arab culture that they respect/admire extreme violence against those that spread anarchy and chaos.
2. Appointing that idiot General Garner to organize the post war govt.
3. Failing to give the Iraqis an interim constitution to speed up the process of forming a new govt. In addition, this interim constitution would have steered the Iraqis to a govt more of our liking...
4. Not securing the ammo depots all over the country.
5. Not instigating public work projects to put some money into people's pockets. Long term, most public work projects are a poor return on tax payer money but we needed to inject some optimism into Iraq and get the people work and some dollars in their pocket.
6. Disbanding the Bathist and the Iraqi army. This mistake is excusable but they should have taken a wait-and-see attitude before dismissing these people. General George Patton in post-war Germany kept Nazi officials in power to keep his provences running smoothly...
7. Not utilizing the Kurds to help secure the country especially the ammo depots.
8. Not bombing Syria and Iran for their support of insurgents. Destroy their air force while it is on the ground to send a message to these bastards...

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty comprehensive list. I'd add "not relieving Donald Rumsfeld of his job for 4 years" to the list, as well.

And there's plenty of blame to go around.

[cardcounter0]

[ QUOTE ]
The USA **NEVER** leaves Iraq.

Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhhh... because the oil in Iraq currently being pumped into tankers and shipped off is not even measured correctly?

[TomCollins]

[ QUOTE ]
Iraq is so much worse off after Bush made the decision to take Saddam out. Worst political blunder in the last 200 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have to say Saddam thinking he could take on the US is slightly worse. You could ask him, but I don't think he has much to say on the subject.

[cardcounter0]

[ QUOTE ]
Iraq is so much worse off after Bush made the decision to take Saddam out. Worst political blunder in the last 200 years.

[/ QUOTE ]
Probably the most profitable decision for the Bush Crime Family in 50 years.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]

I would have to say Saddam thinking he could take on the US is slightly worse. You could ask him, but I don't think he has much to say on the subject.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw an interesting interview with the Iraqi UN-ambassador that said that Saddam thought Iraq wouldn't get attacked, even after the build up in the region.

[theweatherman]

the problems in Iraq, like all the middle east, stem from colonialism. many of these nations have been forced to stay together within artificial boundaries that represent little historical groupings.

I dont think there is a way to prevent this type of reorganizing forever. Even if iraq is somehow pacified it will only be temporary.