Animal cruelty and child molestation in AC land

[UATrewqaz]

I'm not talking about your goals or final "destination" being flawed, I'm talking about your implimentation.

Let's just assume "market anarchy" is a 100% perfect system, completely fair, completley just, and completely free.

Alright... now do it.

Anything can be theoretically perfect, but actual things must be in place to exercise the theory.

You're so in love with the theory you can't even entertain the notion that there might be difficulties in practicing it.

Will every single negative or bad aspect of society and human behavior dissappear in AC land?

If not which will remain? Will any get worse?

Until a very strong AC supporter can list at least a couple of things that will be WORSE under an AC style system, it's all a bunch of mish mash idealism.

[pvn]

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I fail to see how the corruption that exists in government would be kept out of any of these institutions.

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Government institutions are much. much more fertile ground for corruption. You have a monopoly agency without any regard for reputation.

How often, for example, are modern private security forces involved in corruption scandals as compared to the "real" police?

How many OU Kosher inspectors have been caught taking bribes?

How many diplomas has Harvard sold without regard to qualifications?

[pvn]

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I'm not talking about your goals or final "destination" being flawed, I'm talking about your implimentation.

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There is no implementation.

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Let's just assume "market anarchy" is a 100% perfect system, completely fair, completley just, and completely free.

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It's not, and nobody has claimed that it is.

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Alright... now do it.

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Do *what*?

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You're so in love with the theory you can't even entertain the notion that there might be difficulties in practicing it.

Will every single negative or bad aspect of society and human behavior dissappear in AC land?

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I believe every single ACer on this board is on the record saying that AC is emphatically NOT utopian.

[UATrewqaz]

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I believe every single ACer on this board is on the record saying that AC is emphatically NOT utopian.

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Ok, then tell me what's wrong with it? If it's not utopian, and therefor is imperfect, than it has flaws.

[Nielsio]

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I'm not talking about your goals or final "destination" being flawed, I'm talking about your implimentation.

Let's just assume "market anarchy" is a 100% perfect system, completely fair, completley just, and completely free.

Alright... now do it.

Anything can be theoretically perfect, but actual things must be in place to exercise the theory.

You're so in love with the theory you can't even entertain the notion that there might be difficulties in practicing it.

Will every single negative or bad aspect of society and human behavior dissappear in AC land?

If not which will remain? Will any get worse?

[/ QUOTE ]


You are stuck in wanting to design society. You are stuck in solving problems with power. Is it so hard to leave people, who are acting voluntarily, alone?

[UATrewqaz]

Actually I'm stuck waiting for you to give an answer that's grounded in the real world.

The real world where people actual molest kids.

And although I'm flattered by your fixation on me, I'd prefer if you addressed the questions I was raising instead.

[pvn]

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I believe every single ACer on this board is on the record saying that AC is emphatically NOT utopian.

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Ok, then tell me what's wrong with it? If it's not utopian, and therefor is imperfect, than it has flaws.

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What's wrong with human beings? There's your answer.

Some are lazy.

Some are mean.

Some are stupid.

AC is what you make of it. If you have a bunch of mean people, AC will not make them magically like each other.

[latefordinner]

I'll go on record defending the ACers here. I hate it when any theories about a radical transformation of society fall prey to the trap of "won't this still happen" etc. the burden of proof is simply will it be a better place to live - not will it be a perfect place to live.

But in regards to pvn's earlier points about private companies, I think they are laughable - are you honestly saying that market incentives have largely eliminated corruption? stock options scandals, worker maltreatment, falsification of documents, bribery of governmental agencies, killing of workers trying to organize, price gouging, etc have all been shown to be quite capable of existing in extreme lasseiz-fair conditions - in fact more likely to exist.

Argue that the government is corrupt all you want, no problems there, but to hope that market incentives will magically convince companies not to try and eke out a profit in whatever ways they hope to get away with - whether it involves corrupt and immoral actions or not - when you have a system that rewards the creation of profit over all other considerations is silly.

Now maybe all of your voluntary oversight boards and labeling organizations will be more likely to eliminate these problems than governmental regulation will, but if history is any guide it's not simply going to be companies that magically get convinced that the long-term risk to profit for being murderous or dishonest is more -EV in the long run than being on the up and up. I could throw darts at the Fortune 500 list and guarantee that the majority of companies I have hit have been involved in extended scandals, especially the ones that operate in developing countries with little governmental restraint.

[Vagos]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not talking about your goals or final "destination" being flawed, I'm talking about your implimentation.

Let's just assume "market anarchy" is a 100% perfect system, completely fair, completley just, and completely free.

Alright... now do it.

Anything can be theoretically perfect, but actual things must be in place to exercise the theory.

You're so in love with the theory you can't even entertain the notion that there might be difficulties in practicing it.

Will every single negative or bad aspect of society and human behavior dissappear in AC land?

If not which will remain? Will any get worse?

Until a very strong AC supporter can list at least a couple of things that will be WORSE under an AC style system, it's all a bunch of mish mash idealism.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with people bringing up some possible flaws in AC. It's just that all this nonsense about how child molestors will be dealt with is, IMO, just a weak argument against anarchocapitalism.

Of course there will still be murder, rape, theft, child abuse, etc. It doesn't vanish in AC. But on the same token, the natural social norms and people's own morality and desire for peace and safety doesn't vanish either.

Today, a small minority of people are violent aggressors. Why do you think this will change in AC-land? People don't restrain from theft and murder because they are afraid of the government.

Anyways, no ACist has ever claimed utopia. There are problems with our current society that result from the actions of bad people and these problems will not go away.

[bkholdem]

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Actually I'm stuck waiting for you to give an answer that's grounded in the real world.

The real world where people actual molest kids.

And although I'm flattered by your fixation on me, I'd prefer if you addressed the questions I was raising instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think should happen to them in a hypothetical AC world?