How would you play my hand?

[ILOVEPOKER929]

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There really aren't a lot of hands that a good player plays this way that you want to be raising. I mean, Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8x is one. J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8x might be another, but that's iffy. But aces up is a pretty reasonable holding (not A2, but A8 and A5), as are flushes. Maybe an oddly played set. I really don't think he bets a pair of 5's or a pair of 2's into two people like that, and I don't think that most of the pairs of 8's bet that turn. If he's been really laggro or putting plays on you, maybe, but that's still a pretty bad spot to bluff given the action.

Now, maybe you're just trying to fold the fish's 8x's, but that's still questionable if you can do it.

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I wasnt trying to get the fish to fold a better hand, I felt there was still a great chance I was ahead of the fish. I felt that my raise might get thehip41 to fold some 8x hands. Your statement that you dont think most 8x's bet the turn is 100% correct and thats why my turn raise is pure spewage.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
No guarantees the fish folds and a reasonable portion of Hip's range is 3betting (which you obviously have to call).

I don't think Hip is bet/folding his weaker hands (but stronger than yours) often enough (if at all) for this to be profitable. And I don't think your hand has anywhere near the required showdown value for this play.

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You hit the nail right on the head. The title of my post shouldve been "Lagfish"

[isucksomuch]

collujon

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't have even thought about the flop raise, but thinking about it, it seems right. Your trying to push out the fish so you can get it heads up.

Had it been heads up, that Ah would've been great and that Turn raise would've made a great semi-bluff. But Fish did call two cold. I think the turn here i would've jus called. It doesn't look like the fish is going anywhere if he's going to call 2 cold on the flop, he might possibly have the flush.

i'd jus go w/ a turn call and hope a K, 5 or heart hits

[/ QUOTE ]

I raised the flop cuz I felt my hand was likely to still be best compared to TheHip41's betting range in that spot. I know that the hip will bet all OESD/FD's/gutshot dras/2x/5x/8x or better. So I raised the flop cuz there was still a good chance I was in the lead. I still thought my hand was better than the fishes so I was trying to get Thehip41 to fold a better hand, but I shouldve just called the turn.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
collujon

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Lol, thats what it looked like too, especially when I check/folded the river like a biatch.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

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i think if it was heads up, this be'd a great time for the raise cause TheHip41 might be bet/folding

maybe the raise is good... Fish would have to have the flush to call 2 cold twice. and TheHip41 could very well be bet/folding

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This was my thought process at the time. I wish my brain worked better though. The mistake that I made is Thehip41 is never bet/folding in this spot. He is either bet/3betting or bet/calling.

[waffle]

[ QUOTE ]
Lagfish

[/ QUOTE ]

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
i think if it was heads up, this be'd a great time for the raise cause TheHip41 might be bet/folding

maybe the raise is good... Fish would have to have the flush to call 2 cold twice. and TheHip41 could very well be bet/folding

[/ QUOTE ]


for what its worth, I've never bet/folding to ILP ever, and I don't plan to ever. This is because I know what ILP has about 99% of the time, so if I'm going to bet fold, I usually just check/call, or if I'm playing really well, check/fold.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think if it was heads up, this be'd a great time for the raise cause TheHip41 might be bet/folding

maybe the raise is good... Fish would have to have the flush to call 2 cold twice. and TheHip41 could very well be bet/folding

[/ QUOTE ]


for what its worth, I've never bet/folding to ILP ever, and I don't plan to ever. This is because I know what ILP has about 99% of the time, so if I'm going to bet fold, I usually just check/call, or if I'm playing really well, check/fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

After I check folded the river, thehip41 was like, what did you have? a 5 with a big heart? So yes he always knows what I have [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[olliejen]

I call. If I call, its unlikely the fish will raise and even if he does, I have the nut flush redraw.

If I raise, there's a pretty good chance I'm going to be raising out the fish w/ the 2nd best hand vs Hip41. Even if I don't, I'm probably forcing the fish into a passive calldown or fold on the river if/when I hit my flush.

You may be pushing out the fish for Hip moreso than for yourself, not to mention, Hip41 may be giggling himself silly as he 3-bets your 2nd best, still-drawing hand after the fish folds.

Then, for the times you hit your flush, Hip41 may be check/calling or check/folding, whereas its harder for him to check/fold it if it goes check, bet, call and back to Hip; he probably is getting reasonable odds to call.

On the other hand, if you call and miss your flush and Hip is still betting into you, you can fold, having only spent the 1 turn bet vs the 2 you spent raising the turn.