Four Winds Casino…..I was there

[ChicagoJoe]

After all that I had read and heard about electronic poker tables I was not a fan. I arrived at 11 pm Wednesday to find the casino rocking and rolling. When I walked into the e-poker room there were four tables going. They had 3-6 limit and 1-2 no limit games going with $3 max rake. I sat down at one of the $200 max buy-in 1-2 no limit games and played for five hours. After playing I felt that the e-poker tables are not that bad. There are some things that I like and other things I don’t like. A good poker player can gain an edge on electronic poker tables close to a live game with dealer. I plan on playing once or twice a week to see if can keep an edge with the no limit games.

Here are a few odds and ends on the poker room. The room has 19 poker tables with four of them two player heads up tables. The poker room will be running about 14 weekly Holdem & Omaha tournaments. Sit-N-Go’s will be run any time they get enough players. They will be running all kinds of satellite tournaments for the World Poker Tour.

[tkkfan]

umm... Some things you liked and some things you didn't.. Explain??? And whats this "edge" you are talking about? I personally don't get it, why wouldn't you want to just stay at home and play on Stars in your underwear. The rake is less, you save on gas and you can play more hands a hour.

[VVVVVV]

How do you know your opponents' stack size? Is it displayed similar to online sites?

[Sly Selea]

Dammit, I overslept. I finished at 6 this morning and came home for a nap. I wanted to be back up there by noon. Always time for an update, though.

Joe, I wish I had bumped in to you last night. I didn't hit the poker room until around 1 a.m. I only played heads up sng's last night, I was the dork with the Full Tilt beer coozie and shirt.

Concerning stack sizes, there is a display at the bottom of your individual screen with the opposing players name and his stack size underneath it. I'm not sure if it also does this in full ring games, because I was playing sit n gos all night. It also shows the stack sizes of each player in the main center screen, just in front of each players spot.

It sounds crowded the way I describe it, but after a couple games I found it pretty easy to keep track of.

The staff seemed pretty well versed at setting up the games, although they certainly weren't crowded, plus the PokerTek vendors were on hand to straighten out any mix ups. Plus, the were giving away PokerTek hats! Now who wouldn't wear one of those with pride?

I love the last hand feature in the upper right corner. Just like Full Tilt, it gives a screen shot of the ending action. I didn't notice any type of hand history though.

You pay at the cage and they put credit on your players card, which you insert in the machine. The floor has it set up already for the game you selected.

It may have been the surroundings, it may have been the donkishness created by constantly chatting with friends, showing them the table, etc, but I think the nature of the video tables had a lot to do with what in hindsight was abnormaly laggish play by me. Virtual money just seemed easier to let go of. It may have been the $1.50 beer though, too.

The heads up sng's only start with 1k chips and go fast.

I didn't find the room particularly luxurious or anything. Very roomy. Cocktail service wasn't too tardy, especially considering the opening crowds. I'm assuming the tables are fixed in place for all the wiring they must take, but they have a lot of room for more tables if they wanted them.

[VVVVVV]

Thanks for the help.

[ChicagoJoe]

[ QUOTE ]
umm... Some things you liked and some things you didn't.. Explain??? And whats this "edge" you are talking about? I personally don't get it, why wouldn't you want to just stay at home and play on Stars in your underwear. The rake is less, you save on gas and you can play more hands a hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have been playing profitable poker in the Chicago area for many years. Let me make it clear that I am not saying the e-poker tables are better than live or internet games. But I feel that they have some advantages. Four Winds only has a $3 max rake compared to the $5 rake offered by other casinos and the e-tables games run much faster. A light in front of the player lights up when it is the players turn so you can observe his actions. You can see if the players have a Bud Light in front of him or Super Systems II. You can change seats very quickly if a seat opens up. With live games the chips are piled in the center and hard to count. With e-poker tables pot totals are on the center screen with bets of players in front of them. On your screen it shows the total wager is along with each players chip totals. There is a button on your screen that shows the last hand.

In live games the way a player holds chips can lead to tells. With e-poker tables this is out the window. But I am sure new tells will be picked up with the e-poker tables. I find in live no limit games that run slow that some players get impatient and start playing any junk hands. With the speed of the e-tables hands come quickly. At this point I am not saying the electronic tables are good or bad. If the e-tables turn out to be profitable than I plan on making many visits to Four Winds Casino.

[totallyfocused]

I will be thee tommorow evening. I just have ti check them out .I personally cant wait for the sattys to WPT .

[yimyammer]

IMHO, E-Machines are the future of poker, especially tournaments with large fields with a large viewing audience.

They would be perfect for big tourneys. You could still have the TV table and final table have chips and cards, although it would present a dilemma for the ESPN coverage of the main event since I don't think digital cards would be good TV when they attempt to cover hands on non-TV tables.

Advantages that come to mind are:

1. No cards to mark
2. No dealer collusion
3. Less dealers required (Would they even need any besides the TV tables?)
4. More hands per round
5. Easy tracking of stacks
6. Easy tracking of Pot size
7. Easy tracking of bet sizes
8. No dealer errors
9. Can't steal or transfer chips
10. No accidental disqualifications by pocketing chips
11. Color ups would be a thing of the past
12. Total chips in play should be theoretically perfect
13. All tables could be broadcast over the internet (without hole cards) for perfect reporting. Any hand at any table could be viewed on a re-player at a website.
14. Stats of time left in round, avg chip stack, highest chip stack, lowest chip stack or any other pertinent info could be easily displayed on each table

I can eventually see casinos bidding out tournaments to Pokertek and any other competing E-table company that would be in charge of bringing additional tables, maintaining all the tables, tech support etc for every big event. The savings in dealer labor should make this a very viable business model for the E-poker table companies.

This should reduce the rake to players (but may not since these casinos don't seem to give much back to the players when it comes to poker)

Many will be opposed to this and I suspect many people will respond to this post with skepticism, hate and doubt, but the younger generation is comfortable and used to the technology, so it’s just a matter of time.

It just makes too much sense given the difficulties in running huge events the size we see today.

If I had the time and money, I would seek to start my own E-tour in cahoots with various casinos, Pokertek and hopefully various sponsors. The whole thing could be independently run and the casino would receive a fee for hosting an E-tour event and only need to provide space for the event to take place in. The casino would still run the side games and get the rake off of those games like any other tour. It could be one stop shopping for the casino that goes straight to their bottom line and increase their poker and other casino business already in place because of the traffic each event should bring to the casino.

I would also add a “Pokerdome” aspect to the tour where the final table could be viewed live with hole cards & broadcast over the internet. I would have seating inside the dome where these viewers could not see the cards but add to the fanfare of the live event while also have an audience that could see the event outside of the dome with hole cards shown. The idea is there for the taking and I bet someone will do it. If the UIGA gets overturned or a carve out for poker is achieved, then the sponsorships by the various websites would further add to the revenue. You could have the PokerStars E-Tour, The Part Poker E-tour, etc, etc, etc.

[ChicagoJoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Dammit, I overslept. I finished at 6 this morning and came home for a nap. I wanted to be back up there by noon. Always time for an update, though.

Joe, I wish I had bumped in to you last night. I didn't hit the poker room until around 1 a.m. I only played heads up sng's last night, I was the dork with the Full Tilt beer coozie and shirt.

Concerning stack sizes, there is a display at the bottom of your individual screen with the opposing players name and his stack size underneath it. I'm not sure if it also does this in full ring games, because I was playing sit n gos all night. It also shows the stack sizes of each player in the main center screen, just in front of each players spot.

It sounds crowded the way I describe it, but after a couple games I found it pretty easy to keep track of.

The staff seemed pretty well versed at setting up the games, although they certainly weren't crowded, plus the PokerTek vendors were on hand to straighten out any mix ups. Plus, the were giving away PokerTek hats! Now who wouldn't wear one of those with pride?

I love the last hand feature in the upper right corner. Just like Full Tilt, it gives a screen shot of the ending action. I didn't notice any type of hand history though.

You pay at the cage and they put credit on your players card, which you insert in the machine. The floor has it set up already for the game you selected.

It may have been the surroundings, it may have been the donkishness created by constantly chatting with friends, showing them the table, etc, but I think the nature of the video tables had a lot to do with what in hindsight was abnormaly laggish play by me. Virtual money just seemed easier to let go of. It may have been the $1.50 beer though, too.

The heads up sng's only start with 1k chips and go fast.

I didn't find the room particularly luxurious or anything. Very roomy. Cocktail service wasn't too tardy, especially considering the opening crowds. I'm assuming the tables are fixed in place for all the wiring they must take, but they have a lot of room for more tables if they wanted them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw you there I was sitting at table 10. I plan on going tonight I will be wearing an POW-MIA hat.

[mshalen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
umm... Some things you liked and some things you didn't.. Explain??? And whats this "edge" you are talking about? I personally don't get it, why wouldn't you want to just stay at home and play on Stars in your underwear. The rake is less, you save on gas and you can play more hands a hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have been playing profitable poker in the Chicago area for many years. Let me make it clear that I am not saying the e-poker tables are better than live or internet games. But I feel that they have some advantages. Four Winds only has a $3 max rake compared to the $5 rake offered by other casinos and the e-tables games run much faster. A light in front of the player lights up when it is the players turn so you can observe his actions. You can see if the players have a Bud Light in front of him or Super Systems II. You can change seats very quickly if a seat opens up. With live games the chips are piled in the center and hard to count. With e-poker tables pot totals are on the center screen with bets of players in front of them. On your screen it shows the total wager is along with each players chip totals. There is a button on your screen that shows the last hand.

In live games the way a player holds chips can lead to tells. With e-poker tables this is out the window. But I am sure new tells will be picked up with the e-poker tables. I find in live no limit games that run slow that some players get impatient and start playing any junk hands. With the speed of the e-tables hands come quickly. At this point I am not saying the electronic tables are good or bad. If the e-tables turn out to be profitable than I plan on making many visits to Four Winds Casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like this may be a good blend of the best features of both live (observation of opponents) and internet (speed and lack or errors) play.

One additional aspect is that this may induce the internet players to try live play. In reading various forums here I have noticed a low level undercurrent of live vs internet. Maybe the internet players, who may have a fear of cards, chips, tells ..., will be willing to come to a B&M to try this out.