POP QUIZ - Page 7

siegfriedandroy · #61 07-02-2006, 11:33 AM

still waiting for a response on whether you think the pro's play of c'r a 7 is solid. i think the pro should fold a 7 getting 5.5 to 1 or whatever it is. there is no way to know if the lp's are slowplaying, etc. also, he may be way behind to ILP's j-10, j9, qj, etc. i think it is a clear fold for the pro w/ a 7. interested to hear your thoughts.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #62 07-02-2006, 02:04 PM

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I think a good player should check/raise the flop with hands that are too strong to (like Jx or better) on occasion, like maybe 10-15% of the time or so. Just so they're not so readable and don't always become the bitch of other thinking TAGs like ILP

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Thats the paradox of limit poker. If you play perfect, you are basically turning your cards over for anyone who knows what perfect play looks like. Unfortunately the villain ran into an online bot, so he was [censored] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

TheHip41 · #63 07-02-2006, 02:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
still waiting for a response on whether you think the pro's play of c'r a 7 is solid. i think the pro should fold a 7 getting 5.5 to 1 or whatever it is. there is no way to know if the lp's are slowplaying, etc. also, he may be way behind to ILP's j-10, j9, qj, etc. i think it is a clear fold for the pro w/ a 7. interested to hear your thoughts.

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I played a hand similar to this vs. ILP on the 5-10 game and he called me a fish.

I have 95o in the sb. like 150 ppl limp, I complete, bb checks,

actually it's 6 ways to flop.

Flop Q 9 6 rainbow town.

5 checks to ILP on button, he bets, I c/r, the old lady in the BB folded K9, [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] only one super fish calls, ILP laughs to himself and calls, cause he knows he can't put a move on me with the fish in the pot.

Turn 7 I bet, fish calls, ILP calls

River 2

I check, fish checks, ILP checks his J high.

Fish has bottom pair, I win.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #64 07-02-2006, 02:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
still waiting for a response on whether you think the pro's play of c'r a 7 is solid. i think the pro should fold a 7 getting 5.5 to 1 or whatever it is. there is no way to know if the lp's are slowplaying, etc. also, he may be way behind to ILP's j-10, j9, qj, etc. i think it is a clear fold for the pro w/ a 7. interested to hear your thoughts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I played a hand similar to this vs. ILP on the 5-10 game and he called me a fish.

I have 95o in the sb. like 150 ppl limp, I complete, bb checks,

actually it's 6 ways to flop.

Flop Q 9 6 rainbow town.

5 checks to ILP on button, he bets, I c/r, the old lady in the BB folded K9, [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] only one super fish calls, ILP laughs to himself and calls, cause he knows he can't put a move on me with the fish in the pot.

Turn 7 I bet, fish calls, ILP calls

River 2

I check, fish checks, ILP checks his J high.

Fish has bottom pair, I win.

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Sig, I'll let you and anyone else decide If the Pro's checkraise move was a mistake. We already know that the Pro made a mistake by betting the turn against me, but his flop checkraise could be sound depending on my betting range.

Here is my flop betting range on a Js 7s 3x board in a 4 handed pot on the button against two passive players and a pro. QJo,JTo,J9s,J8s,J7s,A7s,A3s,K7s,K3s,77,33,88,T9s,9 8s,T8s. Also here are all the possible spade hands As9s,As8s,As6s,As5s,As4s,As3s,As2s,Ks9s,Ks8s,Ks6s, Ks5s,Ks4s,Ks3s,Ks2s,Qs9s,Qs8s,Ts9s,Ts8s,9s8s,8s6s, 6s5s.

So thats my betting range on the flop, any hand I omitted is a hand I would either raise preflop or a hand I would fold preflop in this situation. For example JTs,KJo,QsTs is not in my range cuz I would raise all these preflop.

So now I guess all you have to do is stove this, and you can figure out if the Pro made a mistake by checkraising the flop.

siegfriedandroy · #65 07-02-2006, 07:12 PM

hmmmmmm. but how do we account for the lp's left in the hand? dam game- so many variables! wish it was more like blackjack [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]... ABC-wise, the c'r w/o odds is clearly 'wrong'. I dont think this situation is sufficiently unique to warrant a c'r here. But Im not so sure now, after looking at your range! However, I think, intuitively, the presence of three others still in the hand makes it a clear fold.

TheHip41 · #66 07-02-2006, 08:56 PM

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hmmmmmm. but how do we account for the lp's left in the hand? dam game- so many variables! wish it was more like blackjack [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]... ABC-wise, the c'r w/o odds is clearly 'wrong'. I dont think this situation is sufficiently unique to warrant a c'r here. But Im not so sure now, after looking at your range! However, I think, intuitively, the presence of three others still in the hand makes it a clear fold.

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the LP in the 10-20 game in question will bet top pair. They might be slowplaying two pair or a set, but if they have a J, they are going to bet.

Mathieu · #67 07-02-2006, 10:08 PM

1. What is the pro's most likely hand?

Jx with X not that high. maybe 88, or A7. With 2 fishies in there he will be more straight forward. I don't think he is check raising that flop very often with a hand that was strong enough to bet. He probably wanted to get a better idea of where he was at before committing chips. He figured you had something (pair or draw) but, still had a wide range given that the two fishies are passive.

2. Given the nature of the pro's hand what is my best strategy on the flop+turn?

Since the pro's hand is often marginal in this spot and does not welcome action, you should use your Fold Equity.

So it's time to semibluff. Make your move on the flop and bet the turn if you think it will be more credible, otherwise call flop and raise most turn cards.

I say raise all overs, and all cards that improve your hand. Don't raise the J pairing.

I guess we can use similar standards for betting the turn after raising the flop.

One more thing, with the two fishies in the game, he should be less willing to get involved with you and run you down with a marginal hand. Especially if your image is good.

siegfriedandroy · #68 07-02-2006, 10:20 PM

miles, what do you think of the pro's play if he indeed has a 7? ive mentioned this a few times in the thread - curious what you think.

Mathieu · #69 07-02-2006, 10:40 PM

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The pro's most likely hand is 7x.

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I aggree with the answers. My range for the pro was too conservative and a bit off (well 50% off). I aggree that Jx has too much value in this spot vs the 2 fishies and a solid straight forward player.

I think I had the right overall idea except for not raising when we complete [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Now that will be a little harder to digest...