I ridiculous overbet because I dont want to get sucked out on

[tcorbin16]

go for the double cr since u r that tricky

[Trivial]

move down

[ddubois]

Yeah, but I have no way of knowing which 2. I mean, he could call $250 with 78, or AQ, or KK, or KhTh, or Ah8h, and I'll be pot-stuck and shoving my last 300 into a 900 on basically any river praying he's got the "other" hand.

Ok, here's another hand where instead I bet a normal amount on the turn, but the resultant pot was so bloated relative to stack sizes, I felt like I was supposed to shove the river, even though it was ugly. (Maybe this was a mistake, and I'm supposed to c/f here getting over 3:1?)

Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $630.90
SB: $399.40
Hero (BB): $497.20
UTG: $449.60
CO: $424.50

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG calls $4, <font color="red">CO raises to $18</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls $14, UTG calls $14

Flop: ($56) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="red">CO bets $45</font>, Hero calls $45, UTG calls $45

Turn: ($191) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $144</font>, UTG folds, CO calls $144

River: ($479) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $290.20 and is All-In</font>, CO calls $217.50 and is All-In

Results: $914 Pot ($3 Rake)
Hero showed J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (a flush, Queen high) and LOST (-$424.50 NET)
CO showed Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (a flush, King high) and WON $911 (+$486.50 NET)

So obviously afterwards I wished I had bet bigger on the turn [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] (even though his call was mathematically incorrect with only 6 outs).

I guess what jfish said is true, I just don't see the big picture of how to make money in poker. I hate losing pots more than I like winning money etc. How can I get past this psychological barrier?

Also, I have a real fundamental problem with how to play the turn/river on hands where normal-sized bets will get me a river SPR of like one-half or one-third. I feel like if I'm pot committed, then I should be all-in.

[BobboFitos]

looks ok to me. b3b is ok on the flop.

[Omniheart]

meh looks fine. dont really see the difference with betting 300 and shoving all in although i prob bet 300.

[MatthewRyan]

u should Really move down for a bit if u cannot play your best

[Dschmeidreu]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but I have no way of knowing which 2. I mean, he could call $250 with 78, or AQ, or KK, or KhTh, or Ah8h, and I'll be pot-stuck and shoving my last 300 into a 900 on basically any river praying he's got the "other" hand.

Ok, here's another hand where instead I bet a normal amount on the turn, but the resultant pot was so bloated relative to stack sizes, I felt like I was supposed to shove the river, even though it was ugly. (Maybe this was a mistake, and I'm supposed to c/f here getting over 3:1?)

Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $630.90
SB: $399.40
Hero (BB): $497.20
UTG: $449.60
CO: $424.50

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG calls $4, <font color="red">CO raises to $18</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls $14, UTG calls $14

Flop: ($56) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="red">CO bets $45</font>, Hero calls $45, UTG calls $45

Turn: ($191) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $144</font>, UTG folds, CO calls $144

River: ($479) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $290.20 and is All-In</font>, CO calls $217.50 and is All-In

Results: $914 Pot ($3 Rake)
Hero showed J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (a flush, Queen high) and LOST (-$424.50 NET)
CO showed Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (a flush, King high) and WON $911 (+$486.50 NET)

So obviously afterwards I wished I had bet bigger on the turn [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] (even though his call was mathematically incorrect with only 6 outs).

I guess what jfish said is true, I just don't see the big picture of how to make money in poker. I hate losing pots more than I like winning money etc. How can I get past this psychological barrier?

Also, I have a real fundamental problem with how to play the turn/river on hands where normal-sized bets will get me a river SPR of like one-half or one-third. I feel like if I'm pot committed, then I should be all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]


OK, Jfish or someone else well known-- if you could give us some insight and answer this problem I think that would be QUITE helpful. This is a VERY common problem among a ton of losing/breakeven/barely winning poker players. I'm not saying OP falls into any of these categories, but this way of thinking is definately a problem for tons of people, so help here would be amazing.

I find myself in a ton of similar situations-- I know if i bet the turn and he calls, ive put in x % of my stack and well theres no way I can just check fold the river if any number of scare cards come (which in some pots could be like one third of the deck or more) so I just end up pushing th eturn and not getting any value.

Another example similar to OP's might be say...flop is QsJs5d, I bet with JJ opponent calls, turn is an 8, theres now so many cards that can come on the river that I just hate-- spade, A, 9,10,K-- and if I throw out a PSB or 2/3rds pot on th eturn, im most likely committed on the river, but what am I supposed to do if it comes any of those nasty cards? Almost always I end up check calling or shoving and they end up outdrawing me. HELP [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[def NOT racist]

wow how the hell can you not understand what long-term play means

[ArturiusX]

Dsch, go back and read the theory of poker. Then you'll delete this post.

[def NOT racist]

the title of this thread is tilting me so hard