tourney life on a race?

Wishwash420 · #1 03-09-2007, 02:26 PM

say your half way through a tourney (online, live, doesn't matter) not even close to the money yet, you get a mid pair 7's-10's, you open for a standard raise, get repopped by the cut off or button for the rest of your chips. you get a slight read on the guy and are 75% sure he has 2 overs (not a pair). do you call his b4 flop raise for your tourney life?

now, same scenerio but you get AKs, and you think he has the mid pair. do you call?

Pocket Crotches · #2 03-09-2007, 02:29 PM

1st scenario I'd ask myself "Do you feel lucky punk?"

2nd scenario, I'd surely call. You may be wrong about the underpair and he may just have a worse ace and then you'd be a big favorite.

I think you just can't win a tourney without getting into races for all or most of your chips. You'll have to at some time gamble for a 50/50 or 60/40 situation.

Sherman · #3 03-09-2007, 02:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
say your half way through a tourney (online, live, doesn't matter) not even close to the money yet, you get a mid pair 7's-10's, you open for a standard raise, get repopped by the cut off or button for the rest of your chips. you get a slight read on the guy and are 75% sure he has 2 overs (not a pair). do you call his b4 flop raise for your tourney life?

now, same scenerio but you get AKs, and you think he has the mid pair. do you call?

[/ QUOTE ]

ZOMG TOURNAMENT LIFE. Umm...I love races. Dead money in the pot from blinds and antes, opportunities to double up and win the tournament. I say bring'em early and often.

Cornell Fiji · #4 03-09-2007, 02:53 PM

You need to take your edges when you have them

If you have TT vs AK you are 56/44 to win the pot plus there is the dead money from your raise and the blinds meaning that you probably only need to be 40/60 to win the hand. The first hand is a very basic call.

The second scenario depends on how deep you are and how good your read is that he does not push with AQ/KQ

paddymcg21 · #5 03-09-2007, 03:32 PM

I dunno, personally I'm more comfortable calling with AKs than say with 99 or TT. The problem is that it's so early so therefore deep stacked. Why is this guy wanting to put you all in after you open for a raise?? Furthermore who is this guy who's putting you all in?? with AK you only fear AA and KK (still just under 30% to beat KK) everything else you either have dominated or a race. with 99 I really cant think of many hands early in a tournament that someone would put you in with that you'd be happy to see. The minimum you'd feel would be AK (with deep stacks why move all in with AK anyway??). Now presuming your opponent isnt completely retarded, he's at least got QQ+ or AK, it seems a sort of play a good player would make with AA or KK to disguise their hand somewhat. Basically with a mid pair id say you're 5 to 1 dog around 75% of the time and a coinflip the remaining 25%, not really great odds. With AK you'd be more like a coinflip 40%, dominated 30% (AA or KK) and ahead maybe another 30%. Apologies to people who like to do thses things properly but ive basically just plucked these numbers out of no where. Just using them to illustrate my point. So in conclusion mid pairs are an easy fold about 75% of the time and AK is maybe a fold 50% of the time. Obviously as the tournament and blinds progress these cards have to be played.

paddymcg21 · #6 03-09-2007, 03:35 PM

Lol Misread the question. Halfway through a tourney not the start of a tourney. Well similar philosophy but call more often that what I was saying there. You'd really need a good read but if i knew id have a 55-45 edge over my opponent im calling instantly, these edges add up.

omaha · #7 03-10-2007, 01:48 AM

Cornell has hit the nail on the head about a very important concept which i dont think the op has grasped.

Lets say, blinds 50/100, we raise to 300, someone shoves for 1500.

What odds are we getting? The pot has 1500+300+150= 1950, and we need to pay 1200 to see it!

Thus, our odds are about 5-3. Even if we were on the wrong side of a coin flip, it is an instacall.

The second thing the op doesnt quite get (yet!) is that if you identify a +ev situation, then you take it (okay there are exceptions, but lets leave them alone for now).

Not racing when you have odds will lead to your demise later on.

Also, it is much better to be shoving all in, than be calling it, but thats another topic in itself!

jmill2511 · #8 03-10-2007, 02:27 AM

If you're not comfortable with a 55/45 overlay for your "tournament life" with 15 BB's you probably wont have much success in MTT's. Too many players have this misconception that they can magically outplay their opponents by ignoring small edges like this when you really need to be pushing small edges. This isn't a SNG where your objective is ITM, you're going to have to push small edges like this to consistently go deep.