KQo on the button...facing a push and an extreme shortie in the BB...

[JokerArmy]

No HH sorry in advance...

$6 tourney with 23 left already ITM...

Blinds are 600/1200 w/150 ante 7 handed

relative stacks:

Villian 1 in MP w/~t10,000. Playing solid and just took a wicked beat KK<A10 AIPF. Pushes AI.

Hero OTB w/~17,500 holding K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Villian 2 in BB w/~t3200 before posting (I think he's waiting for AA. Note: sarcasm alert)

I stoved the senario quite a few times and I'm still kinda lost as to what to do...my gut tells me that 1st Villian is straight on tilt and is monkey shoving ATC, and I should iso-shove. Then my brain is telling me he is shoving light...but probably not that light.

So assuming BB is coming along how +EV, if at all, would shoving be in this spot...or is it a fold.

- JA

[JSmith2007]

For some reason, I choose to fold this hand, maybe too much for my own good. Whether villain 1 is shoving ATC or not, I just can't see flipping your stack with KQ in this spot. Being OTB means you've got quite a few rounds before the blinds come to you, so you don't have to have the push or fold mentality right now. Any ace, from the BB or villain 1, will have you dominated. If villain 1 is a solid player, I don't think he's going to be shoving ATC, but probably more marginal hands than he normally would (109s, QJo, etc etc.) all the way up to 22-AA. You really can't put a small range on him, and with that, I fold.

[Popped Rod]

[ QUOTE ]
For some reason, I choose to fold this hand...
Any ace, from the BB or villain 1, will have you dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

+1

Unless, you have a spot on read or x-ray vision, the only hand your beating PF is ATC.

Of course, BB probably called with pocket 5's and wins against villains A9s with a flop of KQ2 rainbow, turn bricks, K on the river..

[levAA]

KQ is a nice stealing hand, but not a hand you should call a push with as you are mostly an underdog - against any ace or against a PP.

I'd let it go.

[BarryLyndon]

Your assumption that BB will comme along for the ride at 3200 after a push and a re-push is ill founded. Plus, KQo is poo poo to call with when you are almost always behind.

Barry

[JokerArmy]

[ QUOTE ]
Your assumption that BB will comme along for the ride at 3200 after a push and a re-push is ill founded.

Barry

[/ QUOTE ]

That might be true and all however if BB folds he's done in like 2 hands no matter what.

- JA

[BarryLyndon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your assumption that BB will comme along for the ride at 3200 after a push and a re-push is ill founded.

Barry

[/ QUOTE ]

That might be true and all however if BB folds he's done in like 2 hands no matter what.

- JA

[/ QUOTE ]

You may get a call like 50% of the time. If you want to really get technical here, only add about 1800 chips to the pot. He's SS for a reason - a lot of players in this spot wait it out to the bitter end to make a push. And, TBH here, I'd probably wait than call unless I had a strong hand too. You're call would intimdate me with rags and I wouldn't feel like I was getting the proper odds.

Barry

[JokerArmy]

This is what's been fn with me a bit in this hand is that I can't put a proper range on the BB cause I'm more like 80%, not 50% like you stated, sure he's coming along if I call...and 95% sure he's stacking off if I fold.

I'll add the t1800 and see what I come up with.

Also if anyone has an idea what range BB should be stacking off with vs 2 AI I'm all ears.

- JA

[ZenMusician]

[ QUOTE ]
Also if anyone has an idea what range BB should be stacking off with vs 2 AI I'm all ears.

[/ QUOTE ]

Harry might say AA only, but I'll consider QQ-AA, AK/s

-ZEN

[JoeyJoJo Shabadu]

BB with 3200 total is inconsequential. If he's on tilt then call. You're at worse 45% even if he's doing this with a naked ace. Pot covers this. Get it in, stack them both, run to the finish.

Edit: Shove... gotta elinimate the SB?