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Old 04-17-2007, 05:45 PM
Poker Clif Poker Clif is offline
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Default Sizing raises: based on pot size, blind size, or what?

I'm confused about knowing how much to raise. I usually follow the rule of always raising 3bb, so that I don't, by varying my raises, give away the strength of my hands. But I recently read somewhere that in addition to the standard 3bb raise, some add one big blind to the raise for each limper that is in the hand. Add to that the fact that some use the pot to size their raises (on the World Poker Tour, Mike Sexton will often talk about a bet being about 1/2 of the pot), and I'm a little confused. Is my "standard" 3bb raise not so standard? Should I be adding to the raise based on the number of limpers? And how does pot size figure in all this? Any insight would be appreciated.
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Old 04-17-2007, 06:10 PM
ottsville ottsville is offline
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Default Re: Sizing raises: based on pot size, blind size, or what?

In general, the thought around here is 3xbb plus 1bb per limper. Many advocate an extra bb or two if you are raising OOP.

If you simply raise 3xbb regardless of position and limpers in front, you will often be giving good odds for someone to call you. Let's say the game is 10nl, you are in CO with a raising hand and four people have limped already. You raise 3xbb; the pot is now $.85(4 limpers, blinds, and your raise). Let's say button and sb fold...the big blind is getting ~4:1 immediate odds(and with each call the next limper gets better odds). Lots of players will call this small raise and try to outflop you.

Now, if you raise 3xbb + 1bb/limper, your raise will be to $.70 and the pot will be $1.25. The bb will be getting about 2:1 on a call and will need a much stronger hand to call. Some raising hands can handle more callers, but even AA holds up a lot less the more players you have in the pot.

There's lots of other factors to consider - meta game things, opponents behind, opponents already in pot, stack sizes, etc, but the 3xbb plus 1bb limper should serve you well as a starting ground.
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Old 04-18-2007, 01:23 AM
_TKO_ _TKO_ is offline
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Default Re: Sizing raises: based on pot size, blind size, or what?

Preflop, raise sizing should be based on table tendencies and stack sizes. Think about how you want the hand to play out (how many people, are you building a big hand that you want to stack someone with, how will you react to a 3-bet, etc).
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Old 04-18-2007, 01:08 PM
KipBond KipBond is offline
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Default Re: Sizing raises: based on pot size, blind size, or what?

% of Pot Size. Blinds are part of the pot pre-flop. And your pre-raise call is also. So, a raise to 3.5xBB + 1BB/limper (standard), is really just a call + pot-size raise.

The % the pot you need to bet depends on a lot of things -- and there doesn't seem to be a very good consensus (see the "Geometric Growth of Pot Size" thread).
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Old 04-18-2007, 01:42 PM
sapsuckah sapsuckah is offline
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Default Re: Sizing raises: based on pot size, blind size, or what?

[This assumes we're talking about hold'em here]

Generally use a multiplier of the blinds (e.g., 3x) pre-flop. After the flop, though, bets and raises are usually represented as a percentage of the pot. That's the basis of your confusion, I think.

Most players (including myself) vary pre-flop raises by blind level. In the first (10/20) level of a tourney, I will usually raise to 80 or 100 if I'm the first in. At the 15/30 level, I'll usually raise to 100 or 120. After that, I'll stick with 3x for a few levels. Once the blinds get to 100/200 and beyond, my standard opening raise is 2.5x (500).

And yes, as said above, certainly bump up your raises if there are already limpers into the pot. The guideline of adding 1x per limper is ok, but be ready to adjust that to table conditions... if you have a monster and a limper has already shown that they can't lay down a hand before the flop, bump it up more than usual. I know this flies in the face of not adjusting raise sizes based on hand strength, but at lower levels players are *never* paying close enough attention to be able to detect this.

Resist the temptation to minraise (2x the BB) with your monster hands. You'll be giving good odds for several others to stick around (which is the last thing you want with a big hand), plus you almost always get more money into the pot by raising and getting one or two callers than by minraising and getting three or four.

Post-flop, if you're first in and want to bet, you should guage your bet as a percentage of the pot size. It could be anywhere from 1/4 the pot to more than the pot, but just understand the odds your giving to the other players when you bet. While this varies significantly based on my hand, the flop texture, and opponents' tendencies, my standard post-flop bet is 3/4 pot whether I hit the flop or not.

Good luck!

Matt
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