Ken Miller: scientist and believeing Catholic

hexag1 · #1 09-23-2007, 10:19 PM

For all the Christian creationists on the forum:
If Ken Miller (author of Finding Darwin's God ) is able to accept evolution and keep his faith in God, why can't you?
This man is a respected researcher on cell biology (he specializes in cell membranes), and was the lead witness for the government against the creationist school board of Dover PA.
I watched this lecture, unaware that he was a believing Catholic until he says so 1/2 way through.

I wonder what the Christian creationists on the forum will say after sitting through his devastating criticism of 'intelligent design'

BluffTHIS! · #2 09-23-2007, 10:43 PM

They haven't listened to myself and other catholics here in the past so I doubt they'll be swayed by Ken Miller. Their problem is that their theology is rooted in misinterpretations of scripture, and willful blindness as to what the very early church was really like (the church in the 100s & 200s didn't look like theirs but like the catholic church). Instead they will put their faith in interpretations of 1500 years later martin and johnny-come-latelies, and in *selective* literalism. Plus they can't see the absurdity of denying the proposition that true science and true doctrine cannot conflict, since true science merely describes the universe created by God. But of course for them, "true science" is anything but and leads to more and more ridiculous notions, just as one lie leads to another.

qwnu · #3 09-24-2007, 12:22 AM

For those who may not know, there is a comprehensive archive of the Dover trial transcripts here. Miller spends the first part of his testimony talking about his background and credentials and then gets into the meat of his direct testimony here. It's a very accessible introduction to evolutionary concepts and the ID controversy that I've recommended to several people (non-scientists) who wanted to learn more about evolution.

Thanks for the link; I haven't watched the video, but hope to find the time soon.

BlueBear · #4 09-24-2007, 01:55 AM

Thank you for posting this, will take a look.

NotReady · #5 09-24-2007, 02:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]

For all the Christian creationists on the forum:
If Ken Miller (author of Finding Darwin's God ) is able to accept evolution and keep his faith in God, why can't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

For all the atheists on the forum:
If Ken Miller (author of Finding Darwin's God ) is able to accept evolution and believe in God, why can't you?

hexag1 · #6 09-24-2007, 02:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

For all the Christian creationists on the forum:
If Ken Miller (author of Finding Darwin's God ) is able to accept evolution and keep his faith in God, why can't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

For all the atheists on the forum:
If Ken Miller (author of Finding Darwin's God ) is able to accept evolution and believe in God, why can't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Way to dodge the question NotReady. Did you watch the lecture?

Accepting evolution by natural selection does not preclude belief in God. It is only a first step. One could easily believe in God and accept the theory, because it doesn't have anything to say (directly) about the origin of the Universe. You can still try to use God to explain the cosmological origin of the Universe. Once you do that, then you must confront the astrophysicists.

Taraz · #7 09-24-2007, 02:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

For all the Christian creationists on the forum:
If Ken Miller (author of Finding Darwin's God ) is able to accept evolution and keep his faith in God, why can't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

For all the atheists on the forum:
If Ken Miller (author of Finding Darwin's God ) is able to accept evolution and believe in God, why can't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because these two subjects have little to do with each other.

NotReady · #8 09-24-2007, 02:40 AM

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Way to dodge the question NotReady.

[/ QUOTE ]

No dodge. I've said before I don't think evolution and the Bible are incompatible. Just a small problem with evidence, like there is none.

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then you must confront the astrophysicists.

[/ QUOTE ]

How so?

What about my question? Are you dodging it?

NotReady · #9 09-24-2007, 02:41 AM

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Because these two subjects have little to do with each other.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad you got my point.

Taraz · #10 09-24-2007, 02:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Way to dodge the question NotReady.

[/ QUOTE ]

No dodge. I've said before I don't think evolution and the Bible are incompatible. Just a small problem with evidence, like there is none.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just false, there is an enormous body of evidence. There is also no other scientific theory that comes close to being as explanatory of what we see in nature as the Theory of Evolution is.

I'm presuming the evidence you require is in the form of fossils only. Thankfully, people who study the field realize that fossils only form in certain circumstances and that we wouldn't expect to find fossils of every species of creature that ever existed. They also realize that every time you find one "transitional fossil" you would need to find two more to explain the new "gaps in the fossil record" that are created.