No Country For Old Men

[Blarg]

I have skipped the spoilers as best I could, but this is the most interesting film thread I have read on 2/2 in ages. It speaks very well of the film.

[unspider]

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... (thoughts on that last scene and the money?)

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I thought it was an example to show that Anton and Moss aren't that different at all - when it comes to survival, they'll resort to the same methods/ideas (Moss offers the college kids money for the jacket at the border)

[KungFuManchu]

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i think of all the films this year...in 20 years the ones that will be remembered and shown in film schools all over US will be No Country, Zodiac n maybe Michael Clayton

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Not so sure about Zodiac. Ive seen it 3 times through no will of my own, except for the 1st time, and I was suprised, intially, at how much I disliked it. The first little bit is good and then it just drags and drags, and really the end jumps around so much with the time cuts that it just comes up feeling empty.

The 2nd and 3rd time I watched it was also with huge David Fincher fans, and same thing, liked the first half, 2nd half just died out.

Anyway, opinions.

[GTL]

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"the book, at its core, is comparing the two characters (mainly what they are willing to risk to follow their "morals") chigurh represents someone without morals who therefore can follow his code without a problem. chigurh never has any decisions of his own,"

again, think it makes more sense to view this as bad things happening to people, instead of Chigurh happening to people. it makes sense as seeing bad stuff happen to people JUST BECAUSE IT HAPPENS, just because that is the way the world works. that was one of the main points of the movie i think, like the speech where the wheelchair guy talks about vanity and how these things can't be stopped, it is the natural course of events.

Re: Characters being stupid. I kind of agree with andy about them being dumb, but not to say they have low IQs or don't have "skill sets" which they obviously do. but they make bad choices and have bad priorities, like going for the money and the money gets everyone killed. same idea as in Fargo, think that was big in this movie too. Harrelson was in it for the money clearly, he dies, the main character money=death, mexicans/money=death. then the kids at the end of the movie give a sling to chirgough and get $100 for it (thoughts on that last scene and the money?)

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i spoke to your point about money/death earlier, but i put it in white as it's a spoiler. I'll put it in white again, because to me, it is one of the key parts of the book and the movie. <font color="white">What gets Moss killed is the fact that he cannot leave the Mecican to die out in the desert. Remember, he has the money, and no one knows who he is but he goes back to the scene with water for the wounded Mexican. This is Moss' mistake. He cannot leave a man to die. It is very subtle, but will change your view of his character and what the book and movie are trying to do thematically </font>

Also, when chigurh says, this coin traveled 22 years to get here it serves several purposes. It offers a description of setting. He states the year on the coin, and how many years it has been traveling, so you know the time period that the story is taking place. Late seventies.

Also, he is alluding to fate or destiny. I think he means, you have been living your whole life up to this point making choices and they have led you here to meet me. The coin has been "living" its life and has been led here as well. Chigurh makes similar statements to Woody Harrelson's character. Something along the lines of, if your code has led you here, then there is a flaw with your code, not with me.

Fate and Destiny are very important to Chigurh because he doesn't make choices, he just follows his rules and lets fate carry out it's plan. In this respect, I agree with your idea that Chigurh is a symbol for mindless violence and brutality that have no preference for affecting good or bad people. Chigurh is not a moral person, he doesn't care whether his victims "deserve" what they get. He has no emotion, just like the violent world around us.

At the same time, Chigurh is very real to the characters in the story. He is not a "ghost" even though he might symbolize mindless violence. He really is a sociopathic killer. He is also a thematic symbol.

A lot of my interpretations about themes in the movie come from my reading of McCarthy's other books which have many similar themes. It's not all there in the movie.

[GTL]

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... (thoughts on that last scene and the money?)

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I thought it was an example to show that Anton and Moss aren't that different at all - when it comes to survival, they'll resort to the same methods/ideas (Moss offers the college kids money for the jacket at the border)

[/ QUOTE ]

this is an interesting point, and i hadn't really thought about it. partly because the book and the movie end somewhat differently, and partly because I never thought to compare Moss and Chigurh like that. (I was busy comparing Moss and the Sheriff.)

Semi spoiler in white
<font color="white">When I think about it more, Moss and Chigurh always seem to come out in a draw when they meet face to face. Moss is caught then slips away several times, and even when they shoot it out it is somewhat of a draw. Interesting. </font>

[unspider]

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this is an interesting point, and i hadn't really thought about it. partly because the book and the movie end somewhat differently, and partly because I never thought to compare Moss and Chigurh like that. (I was busy comparing Moss and the Sheriff.)


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To me, the Sheriff is more of an example of "what could have been". Had the Sheriff been younger (10, 20 years?), I really think that he would have been an equal to both Moss and Chigurh, in terms of resourcefulness and tenacity.

(spoiler) <font color="white"> Instead, he seems to be just a step behind - just missing Anton at the trailer park, not convincing Moss's wife enough to protect her from Chigurh </font>


That's a great point in your spoiler - (spoiler again)
<font color="white"> Anton seems to be able to kill anyone he desires to, but can't finish Moss; Moss seems to come up with very rational plans of escape and backup measures, but he can't ever shake Chigurh.</font>

[Mr_Mxyztplk]

two rooms were taped off with crime scene tape, i think chigurh was in one room and the sherrif walked into the other room, again chance coming into play.

[GTL]

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this is an interesting point, and i hadn't really thought about it. partly because the book and the movie end somewhat differently, and partly because I never thought to compare Moss and Chigurh like that. (I was busy comparing Moss and the Sheriff.)


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To me, the Sheriff is more of an example of "what could have been". Had the Sheriff been younger (10, 20 years?), I really think that he would have been an equal to both Moss and Chigurh, in terms of resourcefulness and tenacity.

(spoiler) <font color="white"> Instead, he seems to be just a step behind - just missing Anton at the trailer park, not convincing Moss's wife enough to protect her from Chigurh </font>


That's a great point in your spoiler - (spoiler again)
<font color="white"> Anton seems to be able to kill anyone he desires to, but can't finish Moss; Moss seems to come up with very rational plans of escape and backup measures, but he can't ever shake Chigurh.</font>

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Have you read the book? If not, you need to read it.

[EmpireMaker2]

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two rooms were taped off with crime scene tape, i think chigurh was in one room and the sherrif walked into the other room, again chance coming into play.

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This is what I thought, but I haven't really seen anyone who agrees with this idea.

[catalyst]

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And no, Anton didn't not kill Moss. The Mexicans who found out where Moss was going killed him in a big shootout and stole the money. In the book, though, Chigurh ends up with the money, so it's safe to assume he caught up with the Mexicans.

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I was under the impression Chigurh did get the money when he went back to the scene (they made it a point to mention the mexicans were in a rush and didn't have much time. Chigurgh's dime was on the floor near the vent; indicating he had opened the vent, where the money may or may not have been).