3-bet pots with overcard flopping

[Berge20]

Assume reasonable villian
Assume we have position
Assume 100BB stacks
Hero is a reasonable TAG who hasnt been 3betting too light

You wake up with KK or QQ in LP. MP raises it 4bbs and you make it 12bb--MP calls.

Pot is 25bbs and the board comes 63Kr or 74Ar and it is checked to you.

How often do you C-bet here? How much do you cbet here? How do you react to the dreaded mini check raise?

[RyanCMU]

95%

[xxrod17xx]

100% but I am sure its a leak of mine

[AllTheCheese]

Almost never and I call turn almost always. I don't bet the A high flop with AQ or AA either (well sometimes with AA)

[Berge20]

I started thinking about this last night after it I was check-mini raised a few times and I had damn near half my stack in--ultimately forcing me to fold.

Obivously, this is much more complicated the lighter 3-betting and calling is. However, at the lower stakes games, ranges are almost always very narrow for the 3-bettor and caller. Certainly I make a note and if it becomes a trend, other options quickly come into play--but without a history, I'm not one to stack off in that case.

I cbet the living heck out of everything, don't get me wrong. These spots are difficult, I think, because we make them.

If villian thinks my usual cbet range is AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK, which is probably 80-90 percent accurate, then on a Axx flop that I cbet--it's very possible I lay down KK/QQ/JJ to a miniraise. That seems like tons of value for such a small range, regardless of his holding.

Even if he's not outplaying me, by c-betting Axx in 3bet pot, aren't we asking for JJ/QQ to go away when we have KK? Certainly, we won't get much value from them regardless, but it seems they are most likely to drop it to a flop cbet.

It's highly possible these guys happened to do this with AK and just outflopped me. That's fine, but it's also possible they did not and I played these hands poorly.

Funny, we've had an "almost never and an almost always" response. We're all over the place here. Let's toss in the "it depends" and we're good to go [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[SABR42]

I check pretty often.

[ledders07]

10NL this is my opinion and i'm quite confident in these spots primarily due to weak players who i can outplay

with one overcard - i always c-bet unless i have super read

2 overcards - generally give up unless i have read otherwise

i c-bet 20 bb

HOWEVER, i'm pretty sure i'm always +ev as at lower limits a lot of donks c/c and only decent players c/r big and i obv then fold.
a lot of donks 3-bet calling range is much looser than my 3-bet range and i think ive been running good in these situations during my short cash game career

[Sounded Simple]

In position I usually like a check here.
C-betting is the hip thing to do but I always ask myself
"What worse hands call, what better hands fold"
Also, if TPTK can be a small pot hand, where does that leave an underpair?

We want to maximise value against a villans range so the first task is to put him on a range.
At micros its player dependant but you can include
- AA,KK (Some players always re-raise PF so you can sometimes discount this)
- Ax, Kx Hands that hit an overpair against your KK,QQ
- Med to Low PP that hit a set.
- Med to Low PP that miss
- Random Crap that picks up a draw.
- Random Crap that misses.

With the exception of where a villan picks up a draw we are usually WA or WB so that leans me towards checking.

The thing is we are getting into some real poker on the turn. We have to assign probabilities to what makes up his range should they bet the turn.

[1p0kerboy]

It depends on villian for me.

If it's a big blind on button 3bet preflop then I'm cbetting a lot more because villian's range is much wider.

If villian's in EP then I'm probably going to check behind on the flop and evaluate the turn but likely fold to a bet.

[Falc]

I cbet ~50% of the time or so there, depending on villain. I usually bet turn, river varies depending on villain/board etc.

If I'm OOP I cbet alot more often unless the villain is really passive.