Stop talking about the games getting harder...

[morphball]

...and also, never ever ever say that the waters are infested with nits and sharks.

Everyday, there is a thread somewhere about the games being unbeatable, and filled with sharks.

OMG, you say, since UIGEA, Pstars is filled with rocks and I can't beat the games. FTP is a rock garden, you say.

I think its debatable whether or not this is the case. I think its also debatable that the bill is responsible for this. But this thread is <u>not</u> about this debate, this thread is about <u>recruiting</u>.

The truth is, that just like you, the average recreational player wants to win money. Of course, if such a player doesn't have the same skill sets as you, in the long run he will lose. However, he normally doesn't believe that he lacks the skills, and usually thinks that is he is very skilled. Ask yourself, how many poker players have you met that honestly deep down believe that they are fish? Not that many, probably less than 5%.

On-line poker, however, has several drawbacks already to recreational players. The average recreational player doesn't trust the sites are not rigged. The are unsure of the legality. The don't know if they will be able to get their money out.

So, on top of all this, do you think its wise for these players to also be told that the games are now unbeatable because it's just sharks, HUDBOTS and rocks? Don't you think there is enough going against on-line poker in general for these players. Do you want your griping to tip the scales against the new money coming in?

There is a lot of griping about the game conditions on this site. (A lot of it has actually been going on pre-Frist as well, and pre-Frist, very very very few players actually made real money playing on-line poker.) However, I wonder where else people may be talking about the games being tougher or unbeatable.

Do you ever find yourself talking about the games outside of this forum, bitching to your friends that you can't win anymore? Did you use to make boat loads playing SSNL while in college while the rest of your friends worked schmuck jobs?

Here is something to think about. Your friends were probably jealous of you, and after playing a few $10 tournies, may think they have what it takes. Now, you start talking to these friends about how you are going to have to get a real job? Guess what, that friend's decision not to play on-line poker has just received positive feedback.

More so, when you pull in a nice 10 buy-in weekend, week, month at $200NL, and you tell your friends, they tell their friends and there is a chain going about how so and so made $2,000 playing on Pstars. Five or six tellings down the road, it's now rumored that so-and-so made $20,000 in one night.

When you bitch about the games getting harder and unbeatable, what are those stories like five or six retellings later.

If some asks you if on-line poker is unbeatable, they are a potential recruit, or they know potential recruits. Think about that, before complaining about the HUDBOTS.

Better yet, let's try a script, just like a telemarketer.

Q. Do you play poker for a living?

A. Yes, I started just for fun, but after losing a little at first, I learned to beat the games and never looked back.

- or -

A. No, I play as a hobby and use my winnings as supplemental income.

Q. So and so told me that games are infested with sharks and can't be beaten. Is that true?

A. No, it's not true at all. First of all, I play (insert stake here) and the really good players and pros play much higher because it's not worth it for them to play at my level. Second of all, I am constantly surrounded by bad players at my tables, and not to sound condescending, many of them are just easy money.

-or, if you are balla -

A. Dude, I made $200K last month.

Q. Yeah, but I heard about so many people going broke and have to go and get real jobs since the UIGEA?

A. Well, I think that's a bit of a misnomer. Poker is a real job if you want to make a living at it. You have to put in real job hours, and it's a lot more challenging then your typical run of the mill job. I think the people telling you this don't understand the game for what it is. The truth of the matter is that many people who say it's unbeatable never put in the time to learn what it takes to win over the long-term. I can promise you, that if you put in the time, you will be able to beat the lower limit games, and if you have some natural talent, you could go all the way and make a killing in the biggest games.

Whether or not you believe this, this is what the public image of poker should be. Coincidentally, I believe this 100%, so I am not advocating misinformation.

[Dennisa]

Allright, lets all put our heads into the sand and pretend we are back in 2003.

2+2 is not a shill site to promote b&amp;m or online poker. Many users got their money out of Neteller before P2p transactions were stopped. Discussion good, censorship and denial bad.

[Broke Rounder]

I agree with a lot of what OP said, but I don't think it's that cut and dry. I do however see where OP is going with this, and I like it (so far).

[WutRUTryin2Hit]

Sort of see your line, but noone is going to lie to their friends just to add a few more fish for random online pros to feed on. And, people hearing that games are tough is not some huge threat to online poker, there are plenty plenty plenty other threats. I don't think recreational players are really hearing that the games are tough anyway.

[Mondogarage]

OP is living in a dream world. Given what he accurately said, ("The average recreational player doesn't trust the sites are not rigged. The are unsure of the legality. The don't know if they will be able to get their money out"), everything else is irrelevant.

You're talking about the *recreational* player. It's not relevant whether or not the games are "beatable" or not. It's not the game you're taking on, it's the other players at the table. And with all the strong disincentives for the recreational player to takes risks re rigged sites, inability to withdraw, etc., when there's plenty of bar poker, casino action, and home games to be found, having someone shill to them is meaningless.

OP probably also thinks that a carve-out for poker is a done deal, too. The average recreational player wants to win money, sure, but they also want to play with convenience and trust. They don't want to have to sort through pre-paid VISAs to find one that might work, or hope that a site doesn't close their account, or pray that their withdrawal request actually goes thorugh. That's what makes them recreational players. And given the playing options they do still have...the result is obvious.

I'm thinking OP thinks a poker carve-out is a done deal, too.

Hell, the FBI is even looking into gambling taking place in Second Life. The hard core player will always find ways to play online, but absent clear evidence in their eyes that the game is now safe and legal, the truly rec player is lost to the winds.

The truth is, the game *has* gotten harder. If you want to lie to your friends, to convince them to play, just in order to make the game easier for *you*, then you're not exactly their friend now, are you? You want to recruit fresh fish into the pool? Then get the laws changed.

[morphball]

[ QUOTE ]
The truth is, the game *has* gotten harder. If you want to lie to your friends, to convince them to play, just in order to make the game easier for *you*, then you're not exactly their friend now, are you? You want to recruit fresh fish into the pool? Then get the laws changed.


[/ QUOTE ]

You see, this is exactly my point, a bunch of mediocre players, who were never good to start with, and claiming the games are just too hard now. So much of this the "games are unbeatable now" crap is just mediocre break-even players looking for an excuse instead of doing the hard work of looking into their game.

[morphball]

[ QUOTE ]
Sort of see your line, but noone is going to lie to their friends just to add a few more fish for random online pros to feed on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Coincidentally, I believe this 100%, so I am not advocating misinformation.

I am not telling people to lie.

[AbreuTime]

I dig your post OP. I'm on board.

[Emperor]

[ QUOTE ]
I dig your post OP. I'm on board.

[/ QUOTE ]

High Stakes Players only remain high stakes players because they actively recruit fish into their games.

By not recruiting fish into whatever game that you happen to play, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

IOW the OP is spot on and we should ALL be recruiting.

[lefty rosen]

Actually at WSEX the games are neutral with 100 percent rake returned. Encourage the the fishy players to go there and they may have a shot to bust even or lose real slowy..... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]