I am no longer tipping the dealers at CAZ until.......(long)

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I disagree, and do not think it is "practically the same thing."

Had Player C reached over and tabled player B's cards then, yes, he would be wrong. Same if he had looked at the cards and told him he had the winner. Those are actions taken that would indicate to me that he was trying to help Player B read his hand before it was tabled. He would have been making an effort to help player B. That is a no-no.

That is quite different than simply calling out the ranking of an already tabled hand, which is precisely what Player C did. Player A's hand was already on the table, face up, when Player C announced, "nothing." There is nothing wrong with someone reiterating how tabled cards "speak," IMO. That is perfectly acceptable to me, especially if the dealer isn't doing their job here, which also seems to be the case and a major point of yours in this thread, overall. What is the difference if player B calls out the tabled hand, or the dealer?



"Nothing is not a hand value. Every hand has a value (at least in a game which doesn't have a qualifier)"

True. So then this basically means that Player C isn't even necessarily referring to a hand or anything relevent to the game going on in front of him.

What if Player C had tabled his hand, and what if it was a full house and Player A had said, "Boat."? "Boat," is not an offical hand ranking either. It is poker jargon for a a "full house" in the same way that "nothing" is taken to mean "no pair" or "high card".

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The guy shouted out nothing was just trying to speed the game up rather than wait for a while for the guy to figure out the guy tabled a busted hand.

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That's exactly right. So what? If I'm Player A I don't shout out 'NOTHING' or 'You have me beat so just show your hand'. Do you? And, if you are Player A, having started to think that just MAYBE Player B is going to make a mistake and throw away his hand, feel any irritation towards Player C? Say no, I nominate you for sainthood.

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I await my nomination.

Since cards speak, another thing the "villain" could have said was table your hand sir and the dealer would have made the same decision. In this case the villain just used his voice to speak for the cards, no harm done. No if this were to happen at a high limit game I think the discussion would be very different, but thats poker.

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2 minutes into my session a player is showing his cards to a guy sweating him and speaking in his native language. The dealer tells him that if he's going to show the guy his cards he has to speak English. Wow.

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I almost spit up my coffee on this. Awesome.

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Howard didn't say if the sweater was playing in the game. I think the dealer ruled correctly if he was sitting over the player.

[andyfox]

No way the dealers are trained to know what's acceptable and what's not or what to do. When you get a dealer who does, and acts on it, that's great. But it just won't happen that often. So if, as a player, I see or hear something that's not fair to the other players involved in the hand, I will speak up. All players should. To me, that's where the primary responsibility lies. Espeically in the higher stakes games, the players police the game themselves.

[Howard Beale]

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2 minutes into my session a player is showing his cards to a guy sweating him and speaking in his native language. The dealer tells him that if he's going to show the guy his cards he has to speak English. Wow.

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I almost spit up my coffee on this. Awesome.

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Howard didn't say if the sweater was playing in the game. I think the dealer ruled correctly if he was sitting over the player.

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The sweater was sitting behind the player, just watching the game and his friend play. I mentioned this incident because hardly any other (to me, and I'm the nit around these parts) objectionable stuff happened last night and I don't recall a dealer EVER saying anything like this anywhere and it's also something that I never thought objectionable anyway, lol. I was told that the dealers would be more vigilant and I thought that was pretty darn vigilant.

Also, here is your sainthood certificate:



of a sort. Best I could find.

Edit to say:

Hmmm. That pic MIGHT be taken the wrong way due to that 'get my own way in the end part' so, being worried about that I'll mention that it has a SAINT Bernard (see...Saint...get it?) and it mentions patience so........

Just ignore the last part.

[bav]

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...if you are Player A, having started to think that just MAYBE Player B is going to make a mistake and throw away his hand, feel any irritation towards Player C? Say no, I nominate you for sainthood.

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I already said "no" above. Once I table my cards, the dealer or any player is welcome to read the hand. "high card", "9 high", "nothing" are all fine.

What I object to is people phrasing it to tell the other player what he needs to beat me. Don't tell someone there are four to a flush on the board so any club wins. Or if 24567 with four hearts is on the board and I turn over Td9d don't be saying "any 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, J, Q, K, A, pocket pair, or heart wins". Don't say "he has the nut low, you can't lose". That's helping someone else read their untabled hand, not reading my tabled hand.

In some games, typically where there's a 75yo guy in the 3-seat who can't see, if you DON'T read the tabled hands for the geezer it'll takes 60 seconds to finish the showdown. He's going to just stare and stare, stand up and lean over the table and stare some more, go back and look at his cards and the board, then the board and his opponent's card, etc. He's not gonna fold a winner, he's just not gonna show a loser, either, so until he figures out 'xactly what the other guy has the game waits. Read the tabled hand and you can move on.

[Red Stine]

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If you have a floorperson and dealers who are not doing anything about your complaints than you need to go see the Pokerroom Manager. Instead of complaining and whining on the internet go see him. I am sure he will do something about it. If you know him at all you know he will try and fix the problem. It's also not very good ettiuette to encourage other players not to tip the dealers. By writing blogs on the internet and telling players your not gonna tip that is exactly what you are doing. Somewhere a while back you had a job. How would you like it if customers at your job where encouraging customers or your boss not to pay your wage. I don't think you would like it very well. As for the dealers you say are friends, keep stiffing them and see how friendly they are. Take my advice and go see the pokerroom manager when you have a problem. If floorpersons aren't doing there job let him know and
he will take care of it.

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Obviously a CAZ dealer who didn't graduate high school.

[jjshabado]

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No way the dealers are trained to know what's acceptable and what's not or what to do. When you get a dealer who does, and acts on it, that's great. But it just won't happen that often. So if, as a player, I see or hear something that's not fair to the other players involved in the hand, I will speak up. All players should. To me, that's where the primary responsibility lies. Espeically in the higher stakes games, the players police the game themselves.

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I don't really understand this.

Is this the official policy of most casinos? My understanding was that I pay a rake for a person to deal and to enforce the rules that the house publicly states. I understand that there are many obscure rules, and many situations that can come up that aren't directly covered by existing rules, but the things that Howard was talking about are pretty basic. If a dealer isn't expected to know to speak up in those situations, why are we paying rake?

[arahant]

This thread is too damn long to read, but I'm throwing in my 'vote'. Lucky Chances has a pretty big problem with chinese and tagalog at the tables, both during and after hands. I sure as [censored] don't want to be the guy that says 'quit it', because that just makes the problem worse. And frankly, there is a very real threat of real collusion. I've stopped tipping if I get a dealer who doesn't enforce english only. [censored]...some of them actually participate in the conversation.

If it gets bad enough, I usually try and inform the floor discretely, but since every single employee there is asian....well.

[Howard Beale]

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This thread is too damn long to read, but I'm throwing in my 'vote'. Lucky Chances has a pretty big problem with chinese and tagalog at the tables, both during and after hands. I sure as [censored] don't want to be the guy that says 'quit it', because that just makes the problem worse. And frankly, there is a very real threat of real collusion. I've stopped tipping if I get a dealer who doesn't enforce english only. [censored]...some of them actually participate in the conversation.

If it gets bad enough, I usually try and inform the floor discretely, but since every single employee there is asian....well.

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I've never been to Lucky Chances but I think I see the problem. By your description you are not playing in America, you are playing in the Asia that they have brought with them. It appears that it is YOU who are 'out of place' and are the one speaking the foreign language. If they are all of similar origin and you are in the small minority there may be absolutely nothing you can do except stopping to play there.

[PLOlover]

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And, if you are Player A, having started to think that just MAYBE Player B is going to make a mistake and throw away his hand, feel any irritation towards Player C? Say no, I nominate you for sainthood.

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when i first started playing but not now. I agree with the guy who used the 75 year old man example.
I would rather have a quicker game than win a pot by mistake every year or two.