Emotional Affairs

[Dominic]

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i'm not saying that i expect my significant other not to have any emotional bonds w/men other than me, but i expect her to avoid said entanglements.

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Yep, entanglements are bad. Totally agree. But, er, a little friendly banter on an internet message board is ok, right? no harm there [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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what are you wearing, Katy?



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[katyseagull]

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If you're on a business trip and she's horny for a night, would you be ok with her reading an erotic story online while she takes care of things?

But not ok if she participates in an essentially interactive story via cybersex?



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What's the problem? It's just text. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

My favorite radio psychologist says that email "friendships" can't be classified as adultery at all. I believe her exact words were "Oh please." She said you can't compare internet friendships with real life ones. She's pretty adament about this. Agree?

[Dominic]

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If you're on a business trip and she's horny for a night, would you be ok with her reading an erotic story online while she takes care of things?

But not ok if she participates in an essentially interactive story via cybersex?



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What's the problem? It's just text. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

My favorite radio psychologist says that email "friendships" can't be classified as adultery at all. I believe her exact words were "Oh please." She said you can't compare internet friendships with real life ones. She's pretty adament about this. Agree?

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It depends. Do you ever neglect your BF for your 2+2 buddies? People can get very attached and emotional over an "internet affair." It's because it's not real that's the problem. They create a "perfect" relationship by never having it intrude on real life. Surely you've heard of couples breaking up over ones attachment to someone over the internet?

[tarheeljks]

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At the intellectually level it is something that I find intrinsically interesting. The attempt for people to rationalize basically negative behaviors (jealousy and posessivness) acceptable, or even positive, in the framework of a relationship.

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i don't think they are necessarily negative behaviors in the context of relationship

And that's a common feeling. The challenge is to defend that though. You've made the statement, now back it up.

How are my feeling jealous and imposing restrictions on my wife's activities positive behaviors?

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i'll need some time to think about this so i'm moving on for now.

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i don't think it's unreasonable/unrealistic for her to go out of her way not to hurt me. i would certainly do the same for her

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Certainly, though given the abstractness of what might "hurt" you, it's not necessarily clear cut and may vary somewhat depending on your own insecurity levels.

We've all heard the tale of the abusive husband that says something like "I wouldn't have hit you if you hadn't pissed me off." That's at an extreme, but take that line of reasoning to fidelity, replacing anger with hurt.

How far must your wife go to avoid "hurting" you? How much does she need to live in doubt of not knowing really where that line is?

Yes, it's certainly reasonable (and expected) that our partners will make an effort to avoid situations that hurt us. It's not reasonable to expect them to get it right all the time. Nor is it reasonable to set the bar so high that they're going to fail all the time ("It hurts me when you look at men on TV, you should feel ashamed of yourself.").



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point taken. she wouldn't need to always be worrying about hurting me or crossing the line. i would expect her to use the following thought process: "the line where he gets hurt is here and definitely includes the following things... i'm not exactly sure what's on the other side of the line, but i'll do my best to be a good partner and we'll take it as it comes." she couldn't know every little thing that could hurt me, but she would know what things obviously would.


i'll address the last part when i address the first part of your post

[bogey1]

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Well, like you said (though I snipped it), people are different. It's only happened in a couple cases, but I'll be with a female friend I like and find attractive. The sum is greater than it's parts and something will happen, a shared joke, excited about the same band/book/movie, whatever that brings a moment of emotional closeness. In that moment, I'll feel this wave of affection and I'll feel the urge to caress her cheek and kiss her.

I think, for me (if an attraction is present anyway) I instinctively want to show my happiness by physical actions that give pleasure.

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I have to say you sound like a hoot of a friend. I really appreciate your candor in this thread and have been enjoying reading your posts while I sit here at work. I've never met anyone who got the urge to be so affectionate just upon the sharing of a joke or discussion of a movie [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. You sound fun.

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Heh, you make it sound like "Hey, nice smile, let's make out!". It's a far deeper, complicated and slow process than that. The movie/joke/dinner would be a trigger or catalyst for feelings already present.

An example, from long ago. In college there was a girl I had classes with and we grew to be friends. She wasn't really my type so this didn't present a problem for me. She was attractive, just not my type.

So, a year goes by. We hang out between classes and such. We don't do much outside of school, but we're pretty close. Hug each other good bye, say things in confidence. She had a boyfriend that was a jerk (well, then I only heard her side). Sometimes she'd cry as she told me about something stupid he did.

I felt for her. She was a good person, she was cute. She hurt and she deserved better. At one point we were laughing in the student lounge about something, I felt that part of me that would love to give her those things she deserved, to take some of that pain and replace it with postive feelings, and I felt myself want to kiss her. I didn't though, I'm more discplined that that, and she never had a clue.

Suprised me actually since this really wasn't someone I wanted to go *there* with. Empathy made up for a lack of true attraction I suppose. Since she wasn't my type though, it was fairly easy to get over and it didn't happen again. However, put me in that situation with someone I genuinely could desire and it wouldn't be so easy to just shove those feelings aside.

My nature is such that I have a small number of really, really good friends. People I'd give of myself deeply for. And then I have acquaintances, people I know through work, but never hang out with and, frankly, wouldn't be all that bothered about if I never saw again. I don't really seem able to do anything in between.

Hence my caution with attractive female friends. I know my nature. My nature isn't the norm, I know, but I've talked with a few people (mostly online, but a couple live) and I'm hardly unique. The thing is, you, the "friend", would never know if I felt that flash of desire/affection.

[katyseagull]

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It depends. Do you ever neglect your BF for your 2+2 buddies? People can get very attached and emotional over an "internet affair." It's because it's not real that's the problem. They create a "perfect" relationship by never having it intrude on real life. Surely you've heard of couples breaking up over ones attachment to someone over the internet?

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I'm not advocating these relationships [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]. This is purely an intellectual discussion. I don't think I neglect my bf for my 2+2 buddies. (what kinda person do you think I am!) I will write more on this after work.

[Dominic]

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Well, like you said (though I snipped it), people are different. It's only happened in a couple cases, but I'll be with a female friend I like and find attractive. The sum is greater than it's parts and something will happen, a shared joke, excited about the same band/book/movie, whatever that brings a moment of emotional closeness. In that moment, I'll feel this wave of affection and I'll feel the urge to caress her cheek and kiss her.

I think, for me (if an attraction is present anyway) I instinctively want to show my happiness by physical actions that give pleasure.

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I have to say you sound like a hoot of a friend. I really appreciate your candor in this thread and have been enjoying reading your posts while I sit here at work. I've never met anyone who got the urge to be so affectionate just upon the sharing of a joke or discussion of a movie [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. You sound fun.

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Heh, you make it sound like "Hey, nice smile, let's make out!". It's a far deeper, complicated and slow process than that. The movie/joke/dinner would be a trigger or catalyst for feelings already present.

An example, from long ago. In college there was a girl I had classes with and we grew to be friends. She wasn't really my type so this didn't present a problem for me. She was attractive, just not my type.

So, a year goes by. We hang out between classes and such. We don't do much outside of school, but we're pretty close. Hug each other good bye, say things in confidence. She had a boyfriend that was a jerk (well, then I only heard her side). Sometimes she'd cry as she told me about something stupid he did.

I felt for her. She was a good person, she was cute. She hurt and she deserved better. At one point we were laughing in the student lounge about something, I felt that part of me that would love to give her those things she deserved, to take some of that pain and replace it with postive feelings, and I felt myself want to kiss her. I didn't though, I'm more discplined that that, and she never had a clue.

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YGOS?

I'm kidding! I know exactly what you mean, I just couldn't help myself. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[bogey1]

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If you're on a business trip and she's horny for a night, would you be ok with her reading an erotic story online while she takes care of things?

But not ok if she participates in an essentially interactive story via cybersex?



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What's the problem? It's just text. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

My favorite radio psychologist says that email "friendships" can't be classified as adultery at all. I believe her exact words were "Oh please." She said you can't compare internet friendships with real life ones. She's pretty adament about this. Agree?

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Good question. In college, I had some really close internet friends (back when IRC was the "new" thing). Well, I thought so anyway, but it just isn't the same as bonds forged in the real world. Only one actually became a real life friend.

The internet is an odd beast, with you replacing all the absent non-verbal communication with your idealized version of what it would be.

I think it's goes to intent. Why is someone carrying on an email affair? A sense of danger? Loss of love with their spouse?

I'm not sure how I'd feel about it. Is it akin to my wife flirting with someone (which I'm fine with) or is it something deeper that might actually be a threat to my relationship?

If it's not a real threat, just playing, then I'd need her to be open and honest about it, maybe say somting like "I'm really enjoying flirting online, role playing something I'm not able to be in real life. I love you though and I promise I won't ever ignore you to be online." At the same time though, if it wasn't something I was comfortable with, I'd expect her to respect that and reach some compromise with me. Going with the above example, say, trading posts in a public erotica forum, versus something more personal like direct email.

As long as I know where I stand, I'm generally good. I'm not inherently a jealous person.

[tarheeljks]

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Online banter is ok.

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yah

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What about flirting?

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as i said before intent, matters but in theory know b/c harmless flirting exists.

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Cyber sex?
Phone sex?


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no good


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If you're on a business trip and she's horny for a night, would you be ok with her reading an erotic story online while she takes care of things?

But not ok if she participates in an essentially interactive story via cybersex? Why the difference? She's alone in both cases, reading text in both cases.

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the book is fine b/c she's masturbating, but when we start talking about cybersex/phone sex the fact that it's interactive is what makes a difference to me. i guess you are technically masturbating during phonesex/cybersex, but i think it's a gray area-- someone is actively influencing your level of arousal (obv much more so during cybersex). if she can have cybersex/phonesex with him, then why can't she have it w/me; i would be more than willing to accomodate her needs. i think it is more clear in the case of phone sex b/c hearing someone is more erotic than reading what they are saying. so i would consider it to be worse if she had phone sex w/someone else than cybersex, but cybersex would still bother me. i would rank (> means greater offense) physical interaction > phonesex > cybersex

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It's ok to have a line, but two people may have different ideas on where that line is. If you're going to wait until the event occurs (i.e. "know it when I see it") then you'd best also be prepared to forgive and recognize she may not have realized she crossed a line because you both have different ideas on where that line is.

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that is true, but i don't think phonesex is a good example. cybersex is a better one though


edit: also i feel like i should note that i'm not married.

[bogey1]

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YGOS?


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Ok, what's YGOS mean?

Edit: never mind, parsed it out.

Actually, the opposite. I really like women...mix that with with feelings of strong friendship and romantic feeling percolate up through my consciousness.