AP Visit: I'm going to Costa Rica

[nsj]

Those ripping on AP need to settle down and actually consider this in the context of the scandal we've digested here.

Given all the information that Nat and everyone else have brilliantly revealed in the last week, it appears very clear now that a select couple/few of the company's original investors/founders fleeced their customers for a prolonged period of time for a lot of money.

It's going to take a long time to sort it all out, but I genuinely believe that at the core of AP, in the wreckage of all this, is a network of employees and executives that want to redeem the company name and contribute positively and ethically to the online poker industry, going forward.

And they're bringing down Nat as a paid consultant. Seems to be the first smart thing AP has done in quite a while.

[iron81]

[ QUOTE ]
Quit yanking Nat around. Here's what I would like to see:

Organizational Chart: Before and After. They may not want to disclose the "innocent" or non-important managers/employees but we need to know the chain of command, especially all those of interest.

We need to know who was in charge and who is in charge. Everything from the guy who sent out the original Excel spreadsheet to KGC.

This should help with transparency/accountability issues down the line.

Look at their permissions policy for creating accounts - players, employees, technical, etc. What were the policies for 363?

Look at the logs for any user #'s less than 1,000 (or some other arbitrary #) and how many of them are currently active. Since 363 is so famous, maybe there are others that were created around the same time that may have the same priviledges. This is a low priority since this is a fishing expedition.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like this, especially the last one. If we can't access #363, then maybe we can find a new cheating account.

[Toonces]

Good luck, Nat.

This is slightly off-topic of the specific AP cheating scandal, but it involves the operations of AP and UB and the reneging on promises to its members.

Questions: What is the ownership situation, relating to Absolute Poker, UltimateBet and Bet21.com? When is UltimateBet and Bet21.com going to honor its promise to pay bonus dollars on blackjack tournaments, free "Play to Win" books, and the agreements that it made with its affiliates?

Background:

Bet21.com began in the Summer of 2006 as a site to play elimination blackjack tournaments as well as poker. It is a skin of UltimateBet and can play all of the UltimateBet poker games and tournaments. Bet21 is operated by Blast Off Ltd. Both UB and Bet21 leased the Elimination Blackjack format from UBT (Ultimate Blackjack Tour) and started to offer blackjack tournaments. Both were television sponsors of UBT in the fall of 2006. When Bet21 launched, they offered their customers 100% bonuses to $350 to be paid in "bet21 dollars", identical to the UB bonus program. But they also said that the bonus dollars would be redeemable in blackjack tournaments. See this. I believe the same claim was made at UB that their bonuses would be eligible for blackjack tournaments, but I would have to confirm that with proof within the BJ community.

Soon after joining bet21, most people realized that their bonus dollars were not being converted to cash when they played blackjack tournaments. They contacted customer support and soon learned that the module that operates the blackjack tournaments was not programmed to operate with the bonus accumulator. They assured customers that it was a high priority, would be fixed in a couple months, and that all bonuses earned playing BJ tournaments would be retroactively applied.

A couple months later, UIGEA passed and UB was sold to AP. It is suggested that bet21 might have been sold off seperately, but both UB and bet21 still offer the exact same games today under seperate skins and according to the website, it is still operated by Blast Off Ltd. For several months, separate promises were made by bet21 employees and representatives about dates that the bonus system will be completed. None were kept, and 15 months after the site launched noone has earned bonus credit for BJ tournaments. In addition, most of the people you play only BJ tournaments never received their free book from Ken Eininger (obviously of less importance) which I assume was linked to the bonuses being cashed.

To date, bet21.com is nearly dormant. Their homepage prominently advertises an upcoming event that took place 5 months ago. It still runs a daily schedule of tournaments (which were revamped about 6 weeks ago), but the affiliates no longer receive payment or communication, and of course, the bonus situation is now ignored by UB and bet21.

For more background, this BlackjackTournaments.com thread is the most recent discussion on this topic.

Please feel free to PM me with any specific questions. Thank you for any help you can bring to the blackjack community.

[pineapple888]

Questions:

1.) What happened, in as much detail as possible?
2.) What has changed so that it won't happen again?
3.) When and how will people who were cheated get reimbursed?
4.) What is the algorithm for #3?

Optional questions:
5.) Can I try account 363? Please, please, please?
6.) Will AP agree to buy $10K worth of popcorn for 2+2 thread sweaters?

Edit: Things I'm not particularly interested in include your opinion of the people who used to be in charge, and the people who are in charge currently. It's mostly the process, systems, and checks and balances that matter.

[AJackson]

THis thread has pulled more than the normal quota of idiots.

I doubt Nat will find out anything earth shattering, but I think this a really good thing. It shows the power of the forums and we need that power if we're going to be only ones watching.

Nat, thank you for all your hard work. You're one of the good guys. If I ever make it to a tournament I look forward to meeting you.

[Elusive1]

[ QUOTE ]
Haven't replyed to any AP threads, but I've read them all with interest.
Nat, I'd definitely like hear your report.

AP should pay back those cheated, NOT Nat . That's just absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

you obv havent "read them all with interest" or you would have seen that AP is going to pay back those who were cheated, and Nat is getting paid the expenses of being away from running his business! You are obv a LIFE DONK if you think he would do this work at no cost! GG appreciating the work he has done thus far.

[ikestoys]

Could you get a time frame on cash game reimbursements?

[N 82 50 24]

I'm getting a lot of good questions here. I am saving them up for the trip.

re: off topic things like blackjack. I don't know anything about those issues. I'm going to focus on the issue of people abusing the ability to see other poker players' cards.

[ikestoys]

When are you leaving?

[ursine cotcher]

Nat, ignore people who are kicking up a fuss about you getting compensation for this. It is entirely standard.

It's somewhat promising that AP are doing this - I just hope they are genuinely open with you.

If you need a bodyguard / drinking companion, let me know.