Dealer forgot to burn a card

[gusmahler]

[ QUOTE ]

Ok, I won't try and put my answers next to your specific points above as its getting confusing.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm getting confused re-reading my own post. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you understand the incentives, I completely disagree that with a resuffle after a mistake players will generally have an incentive to correct a mistake early. The incentives will usually be to let the board play out and only call out the error if, after all the cards are dealt, you haven't won.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree.

I'll try to explain with another hypo.

Player 1: AK
Player 2: 33

But the board is different this time:

Flop: 4 7 9
burn
Turn: J
burn
River: A

So Player 1 notices the misdeal and whiffs the flop. He misses the turn also. But then he hits the river. So of course, he doesn't say anything. But Player 2 also noticed the misdeal. So he complains and gets the board re-constructed. The A on the river is dead.

So it's in Player 1's best interest to call misdeal on the flop. Because if he hits his card on the turn or river, it may not matter if the opponent calls for a re-construction.(It should also be noted that in all other situations, flop mistakes have to be corrected at the flop. Once the turn is dealt, the flop stays as is. And the correction is via re-shuffle. Only when a player is all-in does the reconstruct the board method come into play.)

[ QUOTE ]
As to the fairness issue, I'm missing your point on fairness. I think you're saying that randomness is more fair than getting the "fated" cards.

[/ QUOTE ]What bothered me about OP's situation was that the complainer knew exactly which cards would be killed. If you reshuffled the deck, each card has a chance of getting back on the board.

[ QUOTE ]
However, if you think reshuffling is more fair than reconstructing the board to get the fated cards, I still don't see why you think that's more fair than just going with the board as (mistakenly) dealt, since that is equally as random.

[/ QUOTE ]IMO, the mistaken board should stand because it is the most fair. So if it were my game, I would have let the board stand. But if the game was specifically being run under Robert's Rules, the board cannot stand because Robert's Rules says it can't stand.

Under Robert's Rules, if there's no all-in, then a mistake in dealing the flop results in a re-shuffle and re-flop. I don't understand why the fact that someone is all-in would change that rule.

[ QUOTE ]

I'm enjoying the discussion, by the way, no criticism of your views is intended.


[/ QUOTE ]Thanks.

[ShannonRyu]

Each time I read this I come away from it thinking something different. It sounds like the dealer going back to the fated cards to correct his own error in his own house was probably the best choice.

[bacats32]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you. This will be printed and taken to the game tonight that I go to, and where the error occured. The most common errors at this game are based on dealing. The host uses cheap decks of cards and is to cheap to buy nice ones. Tonight I am taking some of my plastic cards to his game in the hopes of changing his mind.

Thank you all for the help.

[/ QUOTE ]

I use cards str8 from a casino. I guess casinos are cheap. I get decks from the casino even cheaper then what they are sold for. I got the hook up. I told my guy to get me some poker cards from the casio then you will be happy. Come on I play on a $450 casino sized table with cup holders and they still spill do I want expensive cards.

[bacats32]

I think the players I play with DO value the 'fated' cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not value fated cards. I value odds. Odds are the same for anything to come.if you redeal after reshuffling the cards to come. it was accidental that I saw the burn cards before the turn and river it was late no one else saw them that is how I knew what cards they were and could tell you what they were. The bad part of the whole thing is I forgot to burn pre flop. the error only got noticed once the river brought his set. Next time I either leave the board as is because odds are odds and it was all in so it sure wasn't a case of seeing what was coming. The other option is to pick up all the board and burn cards and reshuffle and redo the board. (this is also why you keep the burns separate from the muck pile) that way at least because you hit your Q it is redo from the start and back to a coin flip not reconstructing and hoping that last card is his one out. looking back that is my preferance to reshuffle and redo the board.

[Milo]

[censored] like this happens all the time. You should have a rule in place, preferably the one that makes this simplest, since it is a home game and there is no "floor" to make an independent ruling.

I'd suggest this very simple home game rule, "Once action has taken place, the card stands." If there is no action, then the error should be corrected.