relationship between SAT scores and intelligence?

[willie24]

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I think his point is that you guys are BADLY abusing the definition of intelligence so that every little kid gets to be called intelligence "in his own little way." Honestly you guys, intelligence isnt just a synonym for "vaguely good." It has meaninging. When you start to lump into intelligence basically EVERY SINGLE HUMAN CHARACTERISTIC that most people would consider positive, it starts to become foolish.

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look, i agree with you. there's not much worse than the self-esteem boosting attitude prevalent in schools today. but i'm being serious - i don't know what intelligence means. to me, it means "brainpower." i think i'm one of many that go by that definition. if you want it to mean "reasoning ability" or "mathematical ability" or whatever, that's fine. just define it as such when you use it.

is there a high correlation between "reasoning ability" and other intelligences? i'm sure there probably is, but that doesn't mean they are exactly the same thing.

i scored 1480 on the SAT, but i couldn't pass calc 2...in two tries. your average 12 year old can draw a better picture than me. i can't rotate an object in my mind. when i'm in the car and i'm having trouble hearing what my passenger is saying, i mindlessly turn the RADIO volume knob up even though it's not even on.

am i smarter than your average 1200 scorer? well, in some ways yes, and some ways no. my only point is that IQ tests measure what they measure. they do not measure mental superiority. is reasoning ability the single most important mental skill? i don't know, maybe it is. it's not something you can say for sure, because importance is relative.

[willie24]

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this is untrue, the SAT has been proven quite accurate in predicting college performance, that is what the test is designed to do. while there is probably some sort of connection between IQ and those scores, it isnt nearly as strong as that of academic performance. one thing that does appear true is that stupid people in my experience rarely do well on the SAT, it does tend to be a level playing field at least on a small scale. it is hard to expand it to a large field but within a school, or district i think it is a decent metric

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since you seem to be educated on the subject, and i was guessing, i'll take your word for it.

it seems strange to me though, given that it really doesn't seem to take much more than effort to succeed in college (at least at colleges below Ivy League level), provided you pick a major that you can handle.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think his point is that you guys are BADLY abusing the definition of intelligence so that every little kid gets to be called intelligence "in his own little way." Honestly you guys, intelligence isnt just a synonym for "vaguely good." It has meaninging. When you start to lump into intelligence basically EVERY SINGLE HUMAN CHARACTERISTIC that most people would consider positive, it starts to become foolish.

[/ QUOTE ]

look, i agree with you. there's not much worse than the self-esteem boosting attitude prevalent in schools today. but i'm being serious - i don't know what intelligence means. to me, it means "brainpower." i think i'm one of many that go by that definition. if you want it to mean "reasoning ability" or "mathematical ability" or whatever, that's fine. just define it as such when you use it.

is there a high correlation between "reasoning ability" and other intelligences? i'm sure there probably is, but that doesn't mean they are exactly the same thing.

i scored 1480 on the SAT, but i couldn't pass calc 2...in two tries. your average 12 year old can draw a better picture than me. i can't rotate an object in my mind. when i'm in the car and i'm having trouble hearing what my passenger is saying, i mindlessly turn the RADIO volume knob up even though it's not even on.

am i smarter than your average 1200 scorer? well, in some ways yes, and some ways no. my only point is that IQ tests measure what they measure. they do not measure mental superiority. is reasoning ability the single most important mental skill? i don't know, maybe it is. it's not something you can say for sure, because importance is relative.

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Well, people were using it to mean hand-eye coordination or athletic ability or essentially any possible skill that someone might be good at. While I certainly think charisma and charm are traits that lead to success in life, I dont know why they have to be lumped into intelligence. Intelligence is such a tricky beast because everyone wants to always be expanding the definition and making it all inclusive, rather than trying EXCLUDE as many things as possible and find a more limited but more specific definition. It seems to me that this is because no one wants to be left out of the intelligence circle. So, if I suck at pretty much every skill that anyone would call intelligence, I'll simply add in my skills to the definition.

But of course, there is the "I know it when I see it" problem with intelligence. Were Mozart or Bach intelligent because they wrote masterpiece music? I say yes. Is the guy who plays first chair viola in the London Philharmonic intelligent because he plays that Bach piece better than anyone else in the world? I say no. But this ought to be easy enough for you to poke holes in. I guess its just about motivation. I have no inclination to try to include any more skills or abilities than are absolutely necessary into "intelligence."

[furyshade]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is untrue, the SAT has been proven quite accurate in predicting college performance, that is what the test is designed to do. while there is probably some sort of connection between IQ and those scores, it isnt nearly as strong as that of academic performance. one thing that does appear true is that stupid people in my experience rarely do well on the SAT, it does tend to be a level playing field at least on a small scale. it is hard to expand it to a large field but within a school, or district i think it is a decent metric

[/ QUOTE ]

since you seem to be educated on the subject, and i was guessing, i'll take your word for it.

it seems strange to me though, given that it really doesn't seem to take much more than effort to succeed in college (at least at colleges below Ivy League level), provided you pick a major that you can handle.

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well, the SAT was first designed by the ivy league, same with college essays etc. and not all colleges requires a perfect SAT score, at most colleges you only need a reasonable SAT score because that relates to the difficulty of that school

[willie24]

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well, the SAT was first designed by the ivy league, same with college essays etc. and not all colleges requires a perfect SAT score, at most colleges you only need a reasonable SAT score because that relates to the difficulty of that school

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well, you can get into most colleges with a score no where close to perfect, as long as you meet other criteria, like good HS grades or being a minority or athlete. i attended both Wisconsin and Minnesota. I know of many people who scored around 20 on the ACT but graduated with high college GPAs.

i agree that below a certain point, it would be difficult to succeed in college. but as long as you are close to average, i think college is more about effort than aptitude.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
well, the SAT was first designed by the ivy league, same with college essays etc. and not all colleges requires a perfect SAT score, at most colleges you only need a reasonable SAT score because that relates to the difficulty of that school

[/ QUOTE ]

well, you can get into most colleges with a score no where close to perfect, as long as you meet other criteria, like good HS grades or being a minority or athlete. i attended both Wisconsin and Minnesota. I know of many people who scored around 20 on the ACT but graduated with high college GPAs.

i agree that below a certain point, it would be difficult to succeed in college. but as long as you are close to average, i think college is more about effort than aptitude.

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Which completely ignores however much of the ACT or SAT is ALSO about effort and not aptitude. Which is probably not most but certainly some.

[furyshade]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
well, the SAT was first designed by the ivy league, same with college essays etc. and not all colleges requires a perfect SAT score, at most colleges you only need a reasonable SAT score because that relates to the difficulty of that school

[/ QUOTE ]

well, you can get into most colleges with a score no where close to perfect, as long as you meet other criteria, like good HS grades or being a minority or athlete. i attended both Wisconsin and Minnesota. I know of many people who scored around 20 on the ACT but graduated with high college GPAs.

i agree that below a certain point, it would be difficult to succeed in college. but as long as you are close to average, i think college is more about effort than aptitude.

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well like i said, most schools dont require near perfect SAT scores, they require SAT scores which are good enough to match their curriculum. also there are always special cases like athletes and private connections but lets talk about the 99% of students who fall into the average category of students with nothing but essays, test scores and grades

[Philo]

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it seems strange to me though, given that it really doesn't seem to take much more than effort to succeed in college (at least at colleges below Ivy League level), provided you pick a major that you can handle.

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There are many colleges that are not "Ivy League level" at which it is harder to succeed academically than at Ivy League institutions.

[xorbie]

Not much has been said in this thread about the ease with which one can improve one's score by 100-200 points simply by memorizing some words. Obviously any correlation is going to be fairly fuzzy.

[willie24]

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There are many colleges that are not "Ivy League level" at which it is harder to succeed academically than at Ivy League institutions

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i would assume so. i meant "ivy league level" to mean highest tier, not necessarily actually membership in the ivy league. sorry for the lack of clarity.