razz: dead on 6th?

[CarlosChadha]

Razz ($0.25/$0.50), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.10 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 7: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (5.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises

5th Street - (5.80 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks

6th Street - (5.80 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

River - (7.80 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

Total pot: (7.80 BB - $3.90)

[Sp00n]

I would call, his check on 5th is really odd.

[CarlosChadha]

[ QUOTE ]
I would call, his check on 5th is really odd.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you call the river too?

[Andy B]

I'm really confused.

[RT4]

The check on 5th is odd since the other 2 bricked, a check raise is unlikely to happen. I'd guess he paired the 3 or 2 and hit the 6 on 6th for a made 7-6.

You're probably behind on 6th and drawing to a 4 or 3 to take it. I'd fold.

[DJ Sensei]

i think i call down on behalf of pot odds and the fact that 5th checked through, therefore he may have granted himself license to steal the pot. theres a number of hands that you're ahead of, too, like (52/53/56/82/83/86/85) or maybe worse

and i think folding 7th after calling 6th is bad.

[SGspecial]

Carlos --

What happened to stepping up in limits? I thought I had replied to my last .25/.50 razz HH post [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] The problem with reading the villains at this level is that they don't act like villains at other limits, or even like scentient beings in some cases. You can be sure that the villain in this hand paired his 3 on 5th st, and that's why he checked. Now you may proceed with the rest of your hand analysis.

[CarlosChadha]

After looking at this hand some more, it seems highly unlikely that the villain was trapping on 5th with a made 7, and that he just paired 3s. This is because it is a 3 way pot and the guy who called 2 cold might be drawing to better than a 7 (though unlikely). Also, I am clearly drawing to a smooth 7 and no one is going to bet for him, so unless he has maybe a 74321 he is still on a draw.

So on 6th, giving him a 3 and another unpaired card less than 8 in the hole I have about 37% equity. Even if I don't assume he paired the 3s I still have 25% equity, which is enough to call 6th in a 3 way pot (although I can't be sure that the 3rd guy will call).

The fold on the river is more questionable than the call on 6th IMO. The villain is betting into a protected pot against 2 people who are clearly drawing to beat a 76, while most of his strength is on board. In such a situation it is unlikely that he is betting a mediocre hand, like a 76. He most likely improved to a smooth 7 or better or is on a complete bluff. Given the betting sequence so far, it is very hard for him to be on a bluff. I think my fold is okay given that I have a guy behind me to worry about.

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
on 6th, giving him a 3 and another unpaired card less than 8 in the hole I have about 37% equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm very surprised to hear this.

Shows how much I know about razz

[jbrennen]

One idea, although probably of limited importance at 0.25/0.50, is that I'd prefer that my opponent believe that I'm incapable of folding a made 7 in a heads up hand. If he knows I can make that laydown, he may use that against me.

Your call on 6th street basically screamed out that you had a made 7-6, and so a fold on 7th street tells your opponent that you're capable of making that laydown.

For this reason, even if it might be slightly -EV to call in situations like this, I'll generally do it in situations like this where the strength of my hand is clearly evident.