Please B&M read this

[Mygtar]

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It would also appear that others aren't quite getting the general idea you trying to get across with the phrase "lets not do that" so I'm not sure why you would think that saying it over and over again would somehow make people understand.

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The same reason why people yell the same answer to a foreign speaking person over and over. Eventually if you say it loud enough and frequently they will magically understand. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[n.s.]

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Like it or not, it IS a rule for information these days. You can't fight it, so don't let it bother you. You'll affect yourself negatively more than you'll affect anybody else positively.

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If you believe this, do you invoke IWTSTH whenever you are curious about what someone could have called with? I never let it get under my skin, but I do think that people should be heavily discouraged from abusing (i.e. using) this rule, or else it will start happening every hand.

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No, I don't invoke it. I also show down my hand immediately, regardless of position, if I think I have a winner. My goal is to get in as many hands as possible (for me and for the dealer), so I don't do anything that needlessly slows down the game.

However, I do recognize that for pretty much everybody, IWTSTH translates to "I'm curious" and not "I think you're cheating". It makes no sense whatsoever to let it bother me in any way. I feel my play is varied enough that nobody is going to figure out anything. And they're not even trying to learn, they're just curious. If anything, it's advertising, and I'll adjust my play accordingly.

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Yeah, just to be clear I never care when people use it on me - I'm perfectly happy to show my hand, win or lose. There are two reasons why IWTSTH bothers me: the first (and most important) is that it can embarrass a bad player. If some donk calls to the river with bottom pair no kicker and doesn't want to show it unless it's good, calling IWTSTH on this guy is just going to discourage him from doing that in the future.

The second reason is that it can slow down the game (as you mentioned above). This is especially true when some player *do* take great offense at having their hand revealed and so they start a pissy little fight that hurts the mood of the table, the speed of hands, and ultimately my profitability.

[budblown]

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I'll only ask to see someone's hand when they have been raising recklessly 5-6 hands an orbit. I'll make a play and ask to see his hand just to see if he's running hot or if he's trying to bully the table.

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You understand you are "the guy" this thread is about right?

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I have no problem being "that guy" that requests to see the hand.
Is it a rule? Yes.
Is it the right context of the rule? No.
But does the rule still apply in this situation? Yes.
Do I know that it's not the proper context of the rule?Yes.
Do I care that its not the proper context of the rule? No. Why? Because poker is a game of taking advantage of opportunities. And believe it or not that is an opportunity to gain info.
Do I constantly do this on every hand? No. - Like I said in the other post - I only do this when someone has been raising 5-6 hands an orbit consistently, and I want to see what their range is.

[AKQJ10]

Cliff's Notes (based on skimming): <ul type="square">[*]IWTSTH is really controversial. [*]Poker players in Florida are like poker players elsewhere.[/list]

[AKQJ10]

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I don't know of any 2p2ers who don't hate this rule, which is weird, because 2p2ers are the ones that could benefit the most from it.

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QFT. I can't fault those who say IWTSTH abuse tilts them -- by definition, if you could fix tilt overnight, as a rational player you would -- but I'd think that'd be a big thing to work on.

Yeah, it's annoying. Yeah, we all have our peeves. (SOSA and showing incomplete hands at showdown are bigger ones for me.) But people will abuse this rule, and cardrooms will at least occasionally back them up. You can have a fit, or you can laugh it off.

Snowball's right -- those ignorant of the rule are typically too ignorant to gain much from its abuse.

[hime]

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It would also appear that others aren't quite getting the general idea you trying to get across with the phrase "lets not do that" so I'm not sure why you would think that saying it over and over again would somehow make people understand.

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The same reason why people yell the same answer to a foreign speaking person over and over. Eventually if you say it loud enough and frequently they will magically understand. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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Except we're all speaking English and I'm not exactly using an antiquated construction here.

And yeah, I'm a dick when I want to be.

[MicroBob]

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Cliff's Notes (based on skimming): <ul type="square">[*]IWTSTH is really controversial. [*]Poker players in Florida are like poker players elsewhere....[/list]
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.....but tend to think they are somehow different.

[bernie]

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I don't know of any 2p2ers who don't hate this rule

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You know one now. I don't hate the rule.

I think people get way too uptight about it.

b