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  #1  
Old 11-21-2007, 02:26 PM
CallMeJohn CallMeJohn is offline
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Default 200 NL - Flopped top set. How do i get maximum value?

No real reads or HH with Villain. Stats are around 18/10/2.5. His stats on me should be about 14/10/3.5

I've never seen him get out of line and i take he play at face value. I'm putting him on a premium hand.

Hero has $250. Villain Covers.

Hero has T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in EP.

Hero raises to $8, Villain raises to $26. Folded to hero, who calls.

Flop ($52) T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I'm putting him on an overpair or AK. I don't think i get anything from AK and i'm unsure if he calls 3 streets with an overpair.

What is the best line to take against that range?
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  #2  
Old 11-21-2007, 02:32 PM
CallMeJohn CallMeJohn is offline
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Default Re: 200 NL - Flopped top set. How do i get maximum value?

Haha, i just read Renton's Pooh Bah post and his example covered this situation.

I should be leading the pot since i'm representing a wider range than a c/r.

Renton: Save the soul reads for the poker table. You are wasting them in the forums.
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  #3  
Old 11-21-2007, 03:40 PM
SABR42 SABR42 is offline
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Default Re: 200 NL - Flopped top set. How do i get maximum value?

Always check here.

Either check/call or check/raise.
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  #4  
Old 11-21-2007, 04:40 PM
CallMeJohn CallMeJohn is offline
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Default Re: 200 NL - Flopped top set. How do i get maximum value?

[ QUOTE ]
Always check here.

Either check/call or check/raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

So i guess this is different from Renton's post (since it is a re-raised pot). I chose to c/c the flop so he would cbet.

Here is the rest of the action:

Hero checks, Villain bets $35. Hero calls.

Turn: ($120) 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero checks, Villain checks.

River ($120) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero bets $80, villain calls.

Thoughts?
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  #5  
Old 11-21-2007, 05:10 PM
AllTheCheese AllTheCheese is offline
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Default Re: 200 NL - Flopped top set. How do i get maximum value?

c/r river. IMO, if he has Queens or better he's betting. If he has AK or some junk, obv he's not calling a bet. Might as well give him a chance to bluff. You might miss value from Jacks, but whatev.
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  #6  
Old 11-21-2007, 05:19 PM
mistere45 mistere45 is offline
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Default Re: 200 NL - Flopped top set. How do i get maximum value?

i think the decision to bet or check this flop should be based on how often you're C-betting. If you C-bet regularly, then bet here. Else check. The point is, we dont really want to represent A-A or K-K here. If we can represent a standard CBet, and build the pot at the same time, that the way to go.
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  #7  
Old 11-21-2007, 05:30 PM
RapidLearner RapidLearner is offline
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Default Re: 200 NL - Flopped top set. How do i get maximum value?

My default would be to bet $70-$80. Seems to me that AA/KK would be more likely to bet that turn card (since it reduces the chance one is facing a set or 2pair). That gives more weight to villain's range being around QQ/JJ, which are more likely to check behind again. AK/AQ are c/f'ing regardless of what you do, and an AT/KT/QT that was trying to resteal light may just get frustrated and look you up.

I find the c/r line interesting though, and would probably do it if I had a read that villain is too agro on the river. In a vacuum, I like the bet.
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  #8  
Old 11-21-2007, 05:39 PM
AdamBragar AdamBragar is offline
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Default Re: 200 NL - Flopped top set. How do i get maximum value?

So many different ways to play this hand.

Normal way would be check/call, check/check, bet/call (assuming he has an ovperpair).

I doubt he calls 3 barrels if you donk the flop.

I'd probably check/call the flop, donk the turn for halfpot-ish and donk the river for whatever you think he'll call (half pot again?).
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  #9  
Old 11-21-2007, 05:43 PM
mistere45 mistere45 is offline
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Default Re: 200 NL - Flopped top set. How do i get maximum value?

[ QUOTE ]
c/r river. IMO, if he has Queens or better he's betting. If he has AK or some junk, obv he's not calling a bet. Might as well give him a chance to bluff. You might miss value from Jacks, but whatev.

[/ QUOTE ]

villain probably called his river bet with Q-Q or J-J. How much more money do you think you can make with a c-r? He isnt calling a c-r with Q-Q is he? I think the best line against a possible Q-Q holding is to bet the river.
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  #10  
Old 11-21-2007, 05:54 PM
AllTheCheese AllTheCheese is offline
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Default Re: 200 NL - Flopped top set. How do i get maximum value?

[ QUOTE ]

villain probably called his river bet with Q-Q or J-J. How much more money do you think you can make with a c-r? He isnt calling a c-r with Q-Q is he? I think the best line against a possible Q-Q holding is to bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you figure? We give ourselves a chance to win a bet and a raise from QQ by c/ring. He can call a c/r with QQ for sure and with Kings and Aces, he almost certainly doesn't fold to a c/r. And again, the purpose of c/ring isn't "to maximize value from QQ". It's to maximize value from his range which includes a bunch of no-pair hands that won't call a bet but might bet themselves.
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