Stars $4 180 - Turn decision with top 2 pair

True North · #1 08-01-2006, 08:36 PM

Early in a $4+$.40. MP1 has been at the table for about one orbit, and showed severe calling station tendencies in the one hand he played. CO seems average.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 (t3845)
MP2 (t1685)
MP3 (t2580)
CO (t3940)
Button (t7145)
SB (t2500)
Hero (t3950)
UTG (t3629)
UTG+1 (t2375)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls t50, 2 folds, CO calls t50, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (t175) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO bets t100, Hero raises to t400, MP1 calls t400, CO folds.

Turn: (t1075) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t600, MP1 raises to t1500, Hero ???

Two questions:

1) Was my play all right before and on the flop? I checked the BB to avoid building a big pot OOP. I was torn between leading out with a pot-size bet and checking to CR on the flop.
2) Fold, call or raise the turn?

CutCreator · #2 08-02-2006, 11:47 AM

I play these every day. Now, normally I dont do this, but in the stars 4/180's I assume everyone is a donkey until proven otherwise.

I would have raised preflop 3-4xBB and bet out 1/2-3/4 the pot on the flop. The players at these levels will call anything and I want that. Also, I want to define my hand with this flop, this is not a spot I would slow play. Since you got someone to bet, I really would consider moving in here unless you think that there is a good chance you are beat. The reason is because the players in these tourneys will call off all their chips with very little. I had a guy yesterday call off a 6K stack with only like 500 in the pot with a flush draw against my set. I mean, that is just wonderful.

Now, your turn decision is tough, however really, at these levels it could be anything. It seems alot of times early in these tourney you will run into people who will just dump off their chips to you. Yes, you could be facing KT, that is certainly possible, however many times its not.

There are much better players here that could probably help you, but at least imo I am trying to get people to put all their chips in with the worst of it, and the players at these tournaments will do that often.

APipeDream · #3 08-02-2006, 12:03 PM

I play the $20 version of these religiously, and have an excellent ROI after playing 255 of them. About 15-20% of the players have a clue, and the rest are gambling. I cash 37% of the time due to the quality of players, generally busting to bad beats or losing simple races.

With that being said, on your hand...ALL IN. He doesn't have KT, and if he does, I give you the right to kick me in the nuts if we ever meet. Unless you have a good read on MP1 and he seems like a solid player, I would push in immediately and watch your stack build when he turns over A crap or his heart draw.

sccrneo · #4 08-02-2006, 12:04 PM

I would probalby be more likely to raise this since you are OOP and would like to be at least heads up for the flop. If you get two callers its not too bad since when you catch you will be way ahead of their ranges. Also, you dont mind taking this down preflop.

As played, lead the flop. There is no reason to slowplay and there is no real reason to think that anyone will bet for you. This is a rather draw heavy/scary board and could easily get checked through. You also want to make sure that you arent giving a free card to a flush/straight draw. I probably make a pot-sized bet on this flop. That turn card is a good card for you as it didnt complete any of the draws on the flop. I am probably just pushing over his raise on the turn but it might be better to just call and re-evaluate on the river. Although with the potential scard cards that could come, I think I prefer getting in the money on the turn.

APipeDream · #5 08-02-2006, 12:07 PM

Whoops, didn't see you check in the BB...he COULD have KT. I would have raised 5-6x the blind after the action got to me. MP1 will need to pay quite a fee to see the flop.

InternetJunky · #6 08-02-2006, 12:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]

1) Was my play all right before and on the flop? I checked the BB to avoid building a big pot OOP. I was torn between leading out with a pot-size bet and checking to CR on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Assuming your opponent isn't a donkey, your pre-flop play has disguised your premium hand quite well and there's no way your opponent is going to put you on AQ here. Maybe villian has the straight or a set of 6s, but I'd wager that you're ahead 90% of the time here (lower 2 pair being most likely).

If villian is a donkey, then you're ahead 99% of the time here.

[ QUOTE ]

2) Fold, call or raise the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
I push this turn.

CutCreator · #7 08-02-2006, 01:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1) Was my play all right before and on the flop? I checked the BB to avoid building a big pot OOP. I was torn between leading out with a pot-size bet and checking to CR on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Assuming your opponent isn't a donkey, your pre-flop play has disguised your premium hand quite well and there's no way your opponent is going to put you on AQ here. Maybe villian has the straight or a set of 6s, but I'd wager that you're ahead 90% of the time here (lower 2 pair being most likely).

If villian is a donkey, then you're ahead 99% of the time here.

[ QUOTE ]

2) Fold, call or raise the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
I push this turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you found many opponents at this level capable or willing to think about anything other than their own cards?

I am hoping the answer is no, i would hate for these to lose any softness.

True North · #8 08-02-2006, 01:49 PM

Interesting perspectives, guys, thanks. In the past, I've tended to have trouble playing big unsuited cards OOP in raised pots, so I've been experimenting with keeping the pot small. In these low buy-in tournaments, though, I'm having trouble balancing between keeping the pot small OOP and defining people's hands/pushing out garbage preflop.

In the hand, I just called, and we both checked the K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the river. He showed KTo for the flopped nuts.

seke2 · #9 08-02-2006, 01:57 PM

He let you off easy on the river.

I probably play the hand the same as you, but I have to admit that, as the Villain with the flopped nut straight or possibly a flopped set, I play pretty much this exact line.

AceLuby · #10 08-02-2006, 02:28 PM

Raise PF next time, might not get him out, but you need to raise when you are going to be OOP the rest of the hand.