The state of Notre Dame football. - Page 3

shemp · #21 09-20-2007, 06:46 PM

So let's suppose that, say, Michigan St is a team without a bunch of top 30 recruiting years. Did Ty leave enough in the cupboard for a genius football coach to beat them?

Purely a hypothetical question.

deacsoft · #22 09-20-2007, 06:48 PM

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I hope Weis can turn it around, and he definitely gets another year to turn things around, his recruiting and last two years have been too good to fire him after a single bad season, but he has completely blown this transition for whatever reason.

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His huge multi-year contract has more to do with him sticking around then anything else I'm afraid.

shemp · #23 09-20-2007, 06:52 PM

I'm just happy to have lived long enough to have heard a ND coach say, "Navy scares the heck out of me!"-- and really mean it.

Kneel B4 Zod · #24 09-20-2007, 06:55 PM

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I honestly don't think you can compare ND to USC or Texas, or whatever massive program. The schools are just so different. People go to USC to play in the NFL. Plain and simple.

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Notre Dame is as massive a program as there is, they just aren't a very good one right now. top recruits will go to w/e school gives them the best chance at the NFL. that used to be ND/Penn State, then Florida, now it's USC, etc etc.

ND has the resources, name, and everything else required to be a top program.

Thremp · #25 09-20-2007, 06:58 PM

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I honestly don't think you can compare ND to USC or Texas, or whatever massive program. The schools are just so different. People go to USC to play in the NFL. Plain and simple.

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Notre Dame is as massive a program as there is, they just aren't a very good one right now. top recruits will go to w/e school gives them the best chance at the NFL. that used to be ND/Penn State, then Florida, now it's USC, etc etc.

ND has the resources, name, and everything else required to be a top program.

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deacsoft · #26 09-20-2007, 07:10 PM

I'd also like to address the Weis vs Willingham issue. Charlie's recruits have been rated higher that Ty's. This is true. But I don't blame their horrible start to this season on the lack of talent Ty brought in. Charlie took over at a good time. A time when Ty's boys like Quinn, Samardzija, Stoval, Fasano. Carlson, McKnight, & Walker we're ready to bust out. I think some of what's holding them back now is that the players recruited by Weis are still young and inexperienced. The players recruited by Willingham are mostly gone.

This reminds me a lot of what happened to Nebraska. I think Notre Dame and Nebraska have many similarities in this situation. They are both teams with a tradition of running the football. When new coaches were brought in or came in to bring the program into the modern era of football there was a time of transition. You can't just take a team that is built to run the ball 45 plays a game and put in a spread offense. You need to get the personal in there to fit the system. (I predict the Big 10 is going to be hit very hard by this very soon if they haven't been already.) The other big problems for both schools is with recruiting. Not many high school kids want to spend winter in Nebraska or Indiana when they could be in Florida or Southern California. I see a lot of warm weather schools doing very well the past few years. Notre Dame has added difficulties in that it is a Catholic college. And both Nebraska and Notre Dame are big time programs that have not been so big time lately. It's much easier to recruit when you're a winning program. (see: USC)

mmbt0ne · #27 09-20-2007, 07:12 PM

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So let's suppose that, say, Michigan St is a team without a bunch of top 30 recruiting years. Did Ty leave enough in the cupboard for a genius football coach to beat them?

Purely a hypothetical question.

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If you saw a 33-3 score, which team would you put with which recruiting classes?

2004-32
2005-40
2006-8
2007-8

2004-56
2005-62
2006-57
2007-18

deacsoft · #28 09-20-2007, 07:13 PM

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So let's suppose that, say, Michigan St is a team without a bunch of top 30 recruiting years. Did Ty leave enough in the cupboard for a genius football coach to beat them?

Purely a hypothetical question.

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Both members of ESPN's PTI say, "Yes!". Despite being 14 point underdogs at home quite a few "experts" have ND winning on Saturday vs Michigan St. Because I'm a Notre Dame nut I pick them to win every game. But I don't bet on it. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Kneel B4 Zod · #29 09-20-2007, 07:17 PM

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It's much easier to recruit when you're a winning program. (see: USC)

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sure, it's easier to be on top next year when you are on top this year. but USC was pretty meh VERY recently.

They went 37-35 from 1996 to 2001. then Pete Carroll took over.

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he other big problems for both schools is with recruiting. Not many high school kids want to spend winter in Nebraska or Indiana when they could be in Florida or Southern California. I see a lot of warm weather schools doing very well the past few years. Notre Dame has added difficulties in that it is a Catholic college.

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whatever difficulties ND has in being from Indiana/Catholis is more than balanced by having a very lucrative national TV deal. there is absolutely no excuse for this program to not be elite.

deacsoft · #30 09-20-2007, 07:18 PM

Recruiting class ratings carry some weight with me but not much. When even NFL scouts have trouble evaluating NCAA football players; I think evaluating high school talent can't be even close to an exact science. Some players pan out and others do not.

I remember when the big deal was that king of the world place kicker Scott Bentley committed to ND and the changed his mind and went to Florida State. He turned out to be a huge bust for FSU.