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  #11  
Old 07-20-2006, 11:40 AM
nicky g nicky g is offline
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Default Re: Historical Irony

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Two weeks ago, the Germans successfully hosted a great sports festival, receiving people from all over world and showing respect and friendship to all races and nationalities.

One week later, a Jewish State, using old fascist's tatics, killed hundreds of civilians in response to a soldier kidnapping.

If you say that to a 50’s Humanist Jew like Einstein,Isaac Asimov or Popper he would not believe.

Now I can understand why Primo Levi killed himself.

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Einstein was a proud and vocal Zionist and was offered the first Presidency of Israel.

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I was offered some Jehovah's Witness material the other day.

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I was just responding to his ridiculous assertion that Einstein, if he were alive today, would be anti-israel. And you sir, are an idiot.

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You responded to it with an argument that Einstein must have supported something because he was offered a role in it, despite the fact that he turned that down, and yet you have the nerve to call me an idiot. According to wikipedia (if someone knows better please correct):


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hile Einstein was a supporter of Zionism in the cultural sense, he often expressed reservations regarding its application in terms of nationalism. During a speech at the Commodore Hotel in New York, he told the crowd "My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain."[38] He also purchased a full-page ad in the New York Times condemning early Zionists for their treatment of the indigenous Arabs, especially at Deir Yassin (New York Times ad).

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Based on this it strikes me that Einstein could quite easily have been "anti-Israel" if he were alive today in the sense of attacking it for its various crimes, as he did with Zionist forces when alive.

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Actually, I was responding to the ridiculous assertion that Einstein, if he were alive today, would be against Israel. That was made in the OP. I merely pointed out the stupidity of this argument. You made an irrelevant comment, but then that is the nature of your position, you obfuscate and argue your way around valid points, without ever really addressing them. Would Einstein be against Israel defending itself from outside invasion? (Note Hezbollah are not "indigenous arabs to the land of israel," they are an outside invading force). I doubt it.

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As a humanist I think it is more than likely he would oppose Israel's tactics at the moment and deplore the loss of civilian life caused by them, which is what all of us "anti-Israelis" are doing. I don;t get what your problem with my other post is and why you feel the need to personally insult me (the third I've had from a pro-Israeli in about fifteen minutes). You made a bizarre point which I responded to with an obvious joke (which was not irrelevant, if a bit obtuse) in order to show that it didn't make sense. I don't see why that should offend you so much.

Characterising the Hizb Allah attack/kidnapping as an "invasion" is seriously over the top IMO. Iraq was an invasion. A raid on a border post before going straight back is hardly an invasion.
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2006, 06:23 PM
Cyrus Cyrus is offline
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Default Ein stein

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Einstein was a proud and vocal Zionist.

[/ QUOTE ]Here is the great man in his own words:

"My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain -- especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state."
--Albert Einstein
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"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the “Freedom Party” (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
--Letter to the New York Times, 1948; Einstein as co-signatory.
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